P&ID Drawings

Hey everyone...I'm curious what software everyone uses to generate their P&ID drawings, if you are involved in that part of the design/integration process.

I typically don't do very much P&ID stuff, but the need is becoming greater for me to do more of them....I've seen some pretty neat drawings out there (outside of the 2D stick figure drawings), just curious what some of the 3D looking drawings may have been created in? Or did someone just have way too much time on their hands? For now, AutoCAD will suffice.


TIA,

Greg

I just use my standard CAD package. In my case it is a neat little program called DesignCad 3000. It is an Autocad "clone" - 90% of th capabilities at 10% of the price.

Tom,
does your cad save in a dwg format? Right now I am still on autocad R14. I really don't want to pay the bucks to move up to the current 2004. Are you able to open documents made from later Autocad? Can Autocad users open your dwg? Any drawbacks in submittal and reviews between yourself and Autocad users?

I have used AutoCAD since 1994, and always thought it had more capabilities then I could ever use. I have used at least 5 versions, not counting LT. In fact, for schematics and layouts, I usually use an older version of LT for simplicity (and on GE Cimplicity too!), and then import it into newer full AutoCAD.

I have been forced to use so many different programs that did not work well, or had a horendus learning curve. Trying to use PRO-E for schematics and especially harness is ungodly. One program I just couldn't get to work was SDRC or something like that.



TOM

Thanks for the tip. Since it is about time to pony up for some new CAD software, I will take a look into DesignCad 3000.

No doubt a few other will be mentioned along the way.

regards all.......casey

edit

If I read the DesignCad website, then they are compatible with AutoCAD. I found several reviews on google, all complimentary.

Many years ago I was playing engineer at GM's locomotive plant near Chicago, I was fiddling around at a Unigraphic CAD Station. It is pretty cool to take a highly detailed 3D drawing of a 416,000# locomotive and spin it around and turn it upside down with the joy stick. Spinning a schematic just isn't the same thing.

In general, yes. I can export to dwg fromat to R14 no problem, and no one has had problems with reading my drawings. Occasionally the import function screws up, but most of the time I'm OK, especially if they save in 13 or older.

I also have a great freeware program called Voloview that can read and print later revision Autocad drawings. (At least when I got it it was free.)

http://www.imsisoft.com/faminfo.asp?fam=2

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=3239384&siteID=123112

Software

I currently use Promise-e for any schematics...it's a good package, but you pay for it in price. I will have I will have to check out Design CAD for P&ID stuff. We also have AutoCAD 2005 at work, which it seems like no matter how much I use it, I will never be fluent with it. (I do an awful lot of cutting and pasting in it)

Before I purchased our Promise-e package, I did check into Autodesk's new product "AutoCAD Electrical", which was very similar to Promise-e. Promise-e seemed like a little better package, and was a little better deal...it runs on the AutoCAD runtime engine and *.DWG is not a problem.

But what about something more ummmm, drag and drop graphically...ya know, tanks, pumps, pipes, valves....haha, like RSView, but not.

and here I sit, on a Friday night, at home.....going over the IQ/OQ document for our plant's first paperless recorder!

Have a good night,

Greg

Greg

How do you like Promise-e for the schematics compared to autocad.

I did a comparison quite a few years back with promise-e and two others that I can't remember, and decided to stick with autocad. I don't remember why anymore, but it probably had to do with bugs iiin the demo software and pricing.

regards........casey

Promise-e

You're correct the Demo was a little buggy, but they did fix the bugs, even in the demo....and I know Promise-e a couple years ago had a very infant product.

I love it, wouldn't trade it for anything. I can't remember the last time I launched autocad.....They have come a long way since their early days....

Greg

Microsoft Visio

Greg,

Check out MS Visio Pro (perferably 2003).
It comes with some nice stencils for the P&ID templates and is very easy to learn and use.

Personally, I think that Visio is perhaps the best program that MS has in its arsenal. I even use it for some very standard schematics and 2D drawings because its fast. I can do a drawing and/or P&ID in half the time as compared to CAD.

Keep in mind that you will need to get the Pro version of Visio to get the P&ID capabilities (among other templates).

Regards,
Chris

Re: Software

GregPLC said:

Before I purchased our Promise-e package, I did check into Autodesk's new product "AutoCAD Electrical", which was very similar to Promise-e. Promise-e seemed like a little better package, and was a little better deal...it runs on the AutoCAD runtime engine and *.DWG is not a problem.

Click to expand...

Autocad Electrical has been around for at least 7 years AFAIK. It was call ToolBOX W/D and was sold by CimLOGIC. About 4 years ago, the creator had a falling out with CimLOGIC and moved to VIADevelopment, who had been his previous competitor. Last year AutoDesk bought VIADevelopment, incorporated W/D into their package and ACE 2004 was born. I have been one of Nate's beta testers for around 5 years now and I would never be able to keep up with the amount of work that comes through my office without it. Anyone doing panel layouts for a living is doing himself a great disservice by not using a dedicated wiring diagram package. Having the ability to generate a BOM automatically based on the wiring diagram and panel layout is a huge time saver.

After all that has been said, I do not know if I would recommend it now. I still think that it is a fantastic product, but since being folded into ACAD's stable, the price has skyrocketed. One of the reasons I went with W/D in the first place was because it was the least expensive of all the packages I was evaluating back then. Nate (The creator of W/D and how often to you get to talk directly with the guy writing the code?) always provided excellent support but now everything has to be routed through ADesk and I think that support has suffered because of it. Another bone I have with it is that if you already have ACAD 2005, you have to buy another seat if you get ACE. It cannot be purchased as an addon. (maybe you could work something out with your VAR. Since I was a beta tester they cut me some slack)

Any package that you eventually go with will require some time up front (typically 1-3 months) to properly learn the interface so that you can take full advantage of it. You will have to set up your own custom symbols for the non standard components that you use. ACE is extremely customizable (one if it greatest selling points.) It also has a very extensive library of common parts (A lot of AB components, Square D, Seimens, AD, Entrelec, etc) There is enough there so that you could use existing symbols to create your own. I had no problem creating very unique symbols easily when I started up and now when I have a new component to add. ADesk does offer a 30 day free non crippled demo to try out if you like. After 30 days it shuts it self off.

I hope that this has helped you some.

Bob

Tom Jenkins said:

Occasionally the import function screws up

Click to expand...

The biggest issue with converting to/from Autocad is layers. It seems like only the "base" layer gets translated. Text gets a little hose-up, too, because Autocad handles fonts very differently.

I understand Promise-E is an Autocad plug-in, like RSWire, so compatibility shouldn't be an issue. Of course, RSWire can be a real treat with all those blocks.

AK

I have read that it takes between 1-3 months to get up to speed and to learn to use the interface of other electrical cad package.

Have a look at Electra 2005 , it takes 1-3 hours.

DesignCad 3000

Click to expand...

I used to use a DOS version of this in the early '90's (V3.0, if I remember correctly) and was very pleased with it (I've still got the diskettes somewhere!). Recently, I haven't had any call for a CAD package, but should that change in the near future, I know where I'll be looking.

Nice to know they're still alive and kicking.

After years of usinging AutoCad 12,13,14 and 2004, I recently got AutoCad LT 2005. Cant really tell the difference except it cost less and looks a little different from AutoCadd 2004. LT works fine for any electrical drawing I have ever made. Still cost more than some of the other CAD packages out there but it has AutoCad on the box which makes most people happy.

I am presently downloading the Electra 2005 software and will post my findings. I have been using ACE sing 1998 but if something better comes along....I am not afraid of switching.


I also used DesiognCAD in the early '90. It was a decent program but left me wanting just a little. It was not nearly as robust as ACAD.