Siemens Questions

Hi everyone, hope you are doing okay digging out of the snow?

I have a prospect with a Siemens Simatic 6AV6 644-0AA01-2AX0 12" Touchscreen HMI and a S7-300 PLC, I am not all that familiar with either, but I am wondering if a guy could pull the programs out of both of them without the original program file. I dont know how it works with Siemens.

The OEM doesn't want to do the changes they need in the HMI program because he built the mechanical part of the machine and farmed out the PLC and HMI programming and doesn't want to get involved.

So I am thinking about either changing out the HMI to a Red Lion 12 or 15" and rewriting the HMI program as long as I can get the PLC program out of the PLC.

But if I can get both the HMI and PLC program I will just reprogram the HMI with what the customer wants.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Edm

As for the plc, yes its possible to pull the program out of it. However it will be all in STL without any comment, IE almost impossible to read. You would need to have the step7 project.

Okay thanks DeKemp. I will try to get the program.

Cheers

It will be STL based, but will convert to Function Block or Ladder (if possible). As stated without the symbols and comments.

Even tho your supplier doesn't want to be involved, will he not supply the program?

You MIGHT be able to get the HMI program out of the panel, but it would have required the OEM to plan ahead. The Multi Panels supported a feature called "BackTansfer" that saved a copy of the project on the HMI, so you could upload it later. However, this is deactivated by default, and I believe requires a memory card to store the file on. This almost never happens unless the customer specifically specifies that it must.

As the others have said, you can get the PLC program out of an S7-300, and it should even be viewable in ladder, if it was originally programmed that way. However, there will be no comments, and not even any meaningful tag names. Any references to the actual hardware will turn into absolute addresses (I0.4, QW8, DB3.DBD12, MB10). Any internal tags in blocks will become IN1, OUT2, TEMP3, etc. Its a mess.

I'd recommend Red Lion's Kadet Series, if you are going with Red Lion.

I have used several 15" Graphite panels from Red Lion on the last few projects, I really like them, I have never tried the Kadet series.

DeKemp said:

As for the plc, yes its possible to pull the program out of it. However it will be all in STL without any comment, IE almost impossible to read. You would need to have the step7 project.

Click to expand...

not impossible, just time consuming.

Okay thanks for the info so far folks, what Siemens software do I need to be able to program the HMI and PLC. The OEM wont give us the original programs, no surprise there, so I am going to quote him the cost of writing new programs.

I am more familiar with Codesys programming, but I can go back to my ladder days if I have to.

Any idea what the cost of the programs will be here in Canada. Or what division to talk with to get a quick price.

Thanks.

Edm.

The HMI WinCC Flex 07.

The PLC, you did not provide type, but I suspect either Step 7 or TIA (depending on how old it is).

You are looking at some pretty hefty licenses + your learning curve, it might be beneficial for you to either contract someone or convert to something that you do know. Depending on how much you are having to do. If this is going to be one off, I don't think it will be worth your investment.

Contact you should be able to find here.

The learning curve doesnt scare me, and I can build the cost of the licences into the cost of the project. But I wouldnt have a problem subcontracting this out to someone.

Just for sh__s and giggles, how about a ballpark number to program the following:

Its not a terribly complex system, basically you are running a positive cavity pump motor, they run water through the pump motor and monitor pressure, torque, speed, and flow rate and graph it.

The OEM webpage is below,
http://www.dyno-master.com/

HMI as above, and S7-300 PLC, CPU312C.

Inputs:
Load Cell,
Pressure Transducer,
Turbine Flow Meter,
high speed pulse pickup for speed.

Outputs:
Motor/Start Stop from HMI
Analog Output 4-20 to Pneumatic Pressure Control for brake,
2 pneumatic solenoids,

Graphs are displayed on screen, and should be able to be printed from a local printer. I would like to also be able to save the data in CSV to a USB drive.

Let me know what you think.

Only PLC and HMI configuration and programming ?

For me, it would take like this:
Initial project definition and description - 1 day.
Hardware configuration - 1 hour.
Programming PLC program - 1..2 days.
Programming HMI program - 1 day.
Simulating PLC and HMI program - 1 day.
Real-life testing - 2-3 days.

NB. I dont like that it is a 312C. This is an obsolete CPU.
If this is a new project, consider a CPU with integrated ethernet port. I recommend the IM151-8 if cost is an issue.

Take a look at IDEC. They offer several PLC options with integrated ethernet. FC5A-D12 with MRAM Memory