AB Firmware Update...

My company is looking to do firmware upgrades on some of our AB PLCs. I've been asked to do the update and was wondering how complicated the upgrades are.

Is it as simple as getting the right firmware with the right downloaded version?

I would assume you would back up the code first before updating correct?

I am relatively new to programming so bare with me. A controls tech at heart with a passion for programming.

Are there any sites or books or classes that teach AB newbies the ins and outs of there programming?

Welcome to the Forum!
Updating firmware is not hard to do, but there a few things you have to check first. One important thing to know is if the controller is compatible with the version of firmware you want to use. This is a good place to check.
http://compatibility.rockwellautoma...oad.aspx?famID=2&keyword=Controller&crumb=112

Yes, you most certainly want to back up the existing program first!

As for where to start getting the basics for programming ladder logic, I would highly recommend staring with this series of videos. I will give you a good understanding of what is going on "under the hood".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlsJxSK8tPE

If you have access to a PLC at work that you can practice/test on, then create simple problems and then write a program to solve them. One recent thread was someone looking for help with a homework assignment. If you read the OP, and then skip to page 3, you will see some really good advise on how to start with a blank piece of paper, and turn it into a working program. You can see the thread here.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=101044

Another thing that really help me is to come to the forum everyday, and read the posts. Some of them don't pertain to what I do or the equipment I work with, and some of them are so far over my head I don't even understand the question, let alone the answer. I do however learn a little something with every one I read, and who knows when I might end up working someplace where I will need to know those things.
My last piece of advise is to never be afraid to ask questions. Too often people get hung up not wanting to look stupid by asking a question they think they should already know the answer to, that they end up doing something stupid because they didn't ask first. I wish I could say I was always smarter than that, but I would get rightfully called a liar very quickly if I tried.

Will.

I would only add that I would not do the upgrade unless there is a really good, specific reason to do so. A feature, capability, or solution to some issue are good reasons.

Also be sure to read the known issues for the *new* firmware so that you don't end up creating a big problem for yourself.

I would second the "if you don't have a specific reason to upgrade then don't".

Unlike Windows computers and many other software platforms where it's (generally) best practice to stay up to date with the latest, PLCs and HMI software is much more sensitive, and if it's running and not broken, then why upgrade?

Now, if it's for security or something, then that makes sense if you have a corporate policy and there are newer security features.

The actual upgrade (as explained) is not tough at all.

Risky

If you are relatively new to PLC programming and have not much experience, I would not recommend an update without help.

There is also a time element. Depending on the size and complexity of the projects, upconverting projects requires time. If you have scheduled controlnet connections, you will need to reschedule to restore connections - this means other equipment may have to go in program mode (downtime).

You should also have a backup plan in case you need to revert. Sometimes programs made with earlier versions break when converted.

Caution advised.

Thank you everyone for the replies. I will definitely check out the links above and heed the advice given.

We start the project in a few weeks, I was just trying to get some leg work in before.

Will ask some questions and post back.

Thanks

I generally subscribe to "Not broke, don't fix", but there can be legitimate reasons to upgrade. I highly recommend practicing on a test rack before doing it to production equipment.

ControlLogix 1756-L6x processors are being discontinued December 31, 2016. 1756-L7x processors only support down to Firmware level 19, and assuming your program doesn't need the serial port, or a lower firmware version, the L7 is a better option to stock as a spare. Plus Rockwell is up to version 28 already (L6 only supports up to V20).

By comparison Rockwell is only discontinuing the substantially older and more stable PLC-5/80 on July 31, 2017!

There are a million caveats with firmware and Rockwell, and it's much better to do it as a planned upgrade, then on the fly during a breakdown.

Myself I ran into an issue trying to upgrade from V13 to V20 with getting Array subscript to large (Major Fault Type 04 Code 20) which had me very perplexed. Per Rockwell AnswerID 55851 there has been a bug in for-next loops since 2008 with version 16 that persists till at least version 24, and I had to use a workaround SSV (and when I tried to contact Rockwell, they had no interest in telling me if or when it will be corrected.)

Firmware between cards and drives is also a headache which is why I usually disable compatible keying.

Converting from RSLogix 20.01 to 20.03 was also a huge time sink that I lost weeks of my life to for no discernible benefit.

Oh and once you get your processor upgraded to a new firmware you're not out of the woods. If you switch to an L7, your old Panelview Plus HMIs might stop working. They do have Firmware patches to get it working, but Rockwell will scold you for trying to use a PV+ that you bought 5 years ago, and not a PV+6, PV+7, or PV5000 (the later two of which require a new panel cutout).

Rockwell's never-ending upgrade treadmill will make you very tired, but you have to be aware of it, and try to follow along.

With all those Caveats behind you, the basic premise of upgrading firmware should be simple:
-Go online to your processor, save and upload data tables. Save this copy in case you need to revert.
-Download and install the required firmware version. Use ControlFLASH to flash the processor. If you need to revert and flash back down to a really old firmware version, you may need a 32bit OS.
-Open your saved project. In Controller properties Click Change Controller. Change the revision. Eventually it will open up in the new version of RSLogix / Studio. Download to your processor.

qckrun said:

Is it as simple as getting the right firmware with the right downloaded version?

Click to expand...

Yes and no, just to add to what others have pointed out... it depends on the CPU you are upgrading, I flash a few every week, 5/05 are easy also Compact and Control but PLC5's can be a pain, I have bricked two of them, most of the time the reason is the comms but if you are not doing a lot of data collection with them then just let them keep running as is, also make sure you have the version (if Logix 5000) that you are updating them to

qckrun said:

I would assume you would back up the code first before updating correct?

Click to expand...

This is a given and you should have back up's already... make sure you do, and change the battery if the CPU has one

Best of luck!

Timely thread, I did two firmware flash yesterday, one from V16 and another from V17 to V20. One of the more stressful thing I ever done but both turned out ok. I just don't do this very often but V20 allow me to do some EDS file that V17 does not on this particular system and it also let me get rid of two older version of RSLogix.

One question though. How well does Controlflash know compatibility? The system got a few 1756-EN2T card that are version 1.3 and ControlFlash will let me upgrade to 5.x. Good idea or not?

If you can provide an EDS to RSLogix for it, I can't think of an immediate *compatibility* issue.

harryting said:

Timely thread, I did two firmware flash yesterday, one from V16 and another from V17 to V20. One of the more stressful thing I ever done but both turned out ok. I just don't do this very often but V20 allow me to do some EDS file that V17 does not on this particular system and it also let me get rid of two older version of RSLogix.

One question though. How well does Controlflash know compatibility? The system got a few 1756-EN2T card that are version 1.3 and ControlFlash will let me upgrade to 5.x. Good idea or not?

Click to expand...

I've watched a few YouTube videos, and it seems fairly simple to do as long as the compatibility issues are correct.

Apparently there is a vulnerability to the current versions, and they just need to update the firmware to correct that vulnerability.

In the next week or two we will be visiting the issues and the sites and it will give me a bit more idea of what I am working with.

EDS files are only for Linx.
AOP's (add on profiles) are for logix.

And Rockwell has really put some holes in the bottom of the boat now. Upgrading Studio 5000 for Logix on a computer that has FTView on it, will also "Update" FTview in the background for you. Of course, that makes it incompatible with any other FTView installations you may actually have running on the plant floor.

Fun fun fun.

rdrast said:

EDS files are only for Linx.
AOP's (add on profiles) are for logix.

And Rockwell has really put some holes in the bottom of the boat now. Upgrading Studio 5000 for Logix on a computer that has FTView on it, will also "Update" FTview in the background for you. Of course, that makes it incompatible with any other FTView installations you may actually have running on the plant floor.

Fun fun fun.

Click to expand...

Are you still able to make the runtimes in previous versions like before? For example, using v8.** and making a runtime file compatible with v5.10?

rdrast said:

EDS files are only for Linx.
AOP's (add on profiles) are for logix.

And Rockwell has really put some holes in the bottom of the boat now. Upgrading Studio 5000 for Logix on a computer that has FTView on it, will also "Update" FTview in the background for you. Of course, that makes it incompatible with any other FTView installations you may actually have running on the plant floor.

Fun fun fun.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by this specifically? I have Studio versions on my VM up to v. 24. It didn't affect FTView 8.0 at all.

I just did this to our refrigeration systems. We could help more if you gave us a more-or-less list of what processors you are upgrading and why you want to upgrade them.

Yes, make a backup file. I created folders in each machine's folder named "PreFirmware_Update_<date>" to make it perfectly clear what the difference was then saved the program with the updated firmware.

We did our upgrades because of the issue with pre 13.04 RSLogix 5k not playing nice with newer operating systems.

Anyway, with more info on what you are upgrading a why we can help more.