Importing FTV SE files from Customer Computer

Hi everyone,
I am doing some changes and additions to a customer's FactoryTalk View SE application. On their computer I went to the C:\Users\Public\Documents\RSView Enterprise\SE\HMI Projects and copied the folder that was the same name as the application to a jump drive. I brought the jump drive back and put those files in the same folder in my computer.

When I open up FTV SE I don't see the application show up in the open window. What did I do wrong? Is there another way to do this?

Thanks for any help you can provide!!

You need to use the SE backup and restore utility - not just copy and paste the files.

Sometimes you have to stop the HMI framework service to do the backup, which obviously means killing the application temporarily. Sometimes it'll work with the service running, sometimes it'll fail. If you want to know why, ask rdrast

You can use those files but you have to first create a new project with the same name. Then close FT, then copy the customer files on top of the empty project you just created. Now you can open it.

Put it this way. If you went to the folder where Excel was installed and then copied all the files to another computer, would you expect Excel to work? Of course not. It has to be installed to work. FT View applications work similarly. The have to be registered with something called the FactoryTalk Directory to be usable.

As ASF mentioned, the proper way to do this is to use the Application Manager to Backup the application from the source machine and then use the Application Manager to Restore the application on the destination PC.

JaxGTO is suggesting a work around for when you don't do it the right way. Its ugly but it can work.

OG

Thanks everyone,
I tried Jax's idea but the folder never appears in the SE folder. Not sure what is up there???
I have only used the Application Manager once or twice so I totally forgot about it. One question: When I select a SE (Network Distributed) in the App. Man. I only get a choice to rename a application or delete a application. I don't get a backup or restore option. I get the option with SE (Network Station) and SE (Local Station). When I am at the customers site which one should I use? I was told this is a Network Distributed application but there is no server. The project and the clients are on the same computer. Is there a way to tell how it was done in the beginning?

I have done this several time with no problems so far. Yea it's brute force, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Keep in mind when you create the new application that it has to have the EXACT same name as on the customer PC. This includes case and and spaces in the name or it won't recognize the files.

Bullzi,

As you are new to SE, here are some guides on what you are about...

55703 - Backup and Move FactoryTalk View SE Application to new PC
Access Level: TechConnect

59011 - Deploying an SE application without backing up the application
Access Level: TechConnect

43543 - How to manually copy/move/backup an FactoryTalk View SE Application
Access Level: TechConnect

Also read down through this for guides on copying when the server is running and when it is not...

59010 - SE Distributed/Network Applications
Access Level: TechConnect

There are both SE distributed applications and SE standalone applications. While you are most likely using an SE distributed application here, we cannot assume that and you have not stated as such.

For SE standalone applications you would use the "Application Manager" to backup and restore between the two computers, but you would not use this for SE distributed applications.

For SE distributed applications you would use the "HMI Server Backup and Restore" utility. This replaced the older "RSView SE Backup and Restore Utility" at v5.1 (you are using 8.2 I believe?).

SE applications can be somewhat more involved than their ME counterparts so there can be more to do when copying these applications between computers. Copying FactoryTalk Information, Tag Alarm and Event Servers, OPC Servers, etc. The backup and restore of the application can be just one part of the procedure. It depends a lot on whether you are copying it for modification only or for production use.

It's also recommended to export any HMI tags that your application may have because sometimes these become corrupted during the transfer process. If they are, you can then import them back in.

Stupid corruptible garbage!

Regards,
George

Thanks again George!! The number of beers I owe you is getting quite large!! Hope to pay up one day

In FactoryTalk View SE version 8.1 (I think) they introduced the Distributed Application Manager that makes backing up and restoring Network SE applications MUCH easier. One step backup gets everything. Keep using the Application Manager for ME and SE Local applications.

OG

Thanks OG,
That will make things much easier.

Another question: Is there a issue if I use my version 8.2 to modify an application that was done with a previous version? Will it work? I know with ME you can just create the runtime to match the version on the PV. How does that work with a Computer Based Application?

SE is not that easy. If you open it in 8.20, you are converting to 8.20. So anyone that is using an older rev would not be able to open it.

OG

Do I have to worry about the revision that is on the Customers Computer? Or if I do some updating to the application do I now have to upgrade their FTV to 8.2?

Operaghost said:

In FactoryTalk View SE version 8.1 (I think) they introduced the Distributed Application Manager that makes backing up and restoring Network SE applications MUCH easier. One step backup gets everything. Keep using the Application Manager for ME and SE Local applications.

OG

Click to expand...

Thanks OG,

I wasn't aware of that new feature. Having read a little it is very useful. It's about time they gave us a global backup and restore tool for distributed applications. It still doesn't backup and restore RSLinx OPC Servers, but that is separate software, so I still wouldn't have expected it to.

Bullzi said:

Do I have to worry about the revision that is on the Customers Computer? Or if I do some updating to the application do I now have to upgrade their FTV to 8.2?

Click to expand...

Operaghost said:

...If you open it in 8.20, you are converting to 8.20. So anyone that is using an older rev would not be able to open it.

Click to expand...

I think OG has already answered that one for you?

It gets migrated to your version. It's now a v8.2 application. If they have v7 then they cannot restore it from v8.2 back to v7. They would have to have v8.2 as well. The SE Clients also have to be considered here.

You just using the latest and greatest is not going to work here if you have customers using different versions of software. You really need to be setup to support what they have. Updating a customer just to suit what you have is possible, but most customers will think long and hard before deciding to upgrade just for your sake. Virtual sessions, such as Vmware, running different versions is the best way to go. Certainly you can be advising them to upgrade, but that advice is supposed to be more beneficial to them rather than you.

G.

Geospark said:

I think OG has already answered that one for you?

It gets migrated to your version. It's now a v8.2 application. If they have v7 then they cannot restore it from v8.2 back to v7. They would have to have v8.2 as well. The SE Clients also have to be considered here.

You just using the latest and greatest is not going to work here if you have customers using different versions of software. You really need to be setup to support what they have. Updating a customer just to suit what you have is possible, but most customers will think long and hard before deciding to upgrade just for your sake. Virtual sessions, such as Vmware, running different versions is the best way to go. Certainly you can be advising them to upgrade, but that advice is supposed to be more beneficial to them rather than you.

G.

Click to expand...

George,
He did. I think where I am confused is the architecture of the SE vs. ME. In ME we make a Runtime File that we download to a Panelview. The original version of the file is not as big of a deal because we can make a runtime that matches the PanelView Firmware version.

Based on what I have read, with SE Network Distributed application, the HMI Project is just a data server that resides on a Network Server Computer (typically). The HMI Project handles the data exchange between it and the PLC. Clients are built that are installed on other PC's that are in the same network as the HMI Server. Those Clients get their data from the main HMI Server and display the graphics, data and interact with the user. Am I "on base" here?

Where I get confused is the relationship between the actual FactoryTalk View SE Software and the HMI Application. Is the HMI Application a separate piece of software from the FTV SE software? Like the ME runtime is separate from the FTV ME software. Does the Server require FTV SE be installed on it in order to run? Or is it just a licensing thing?

So if you can fill in these blanks for me I would be very greatful. Maybe I am overthinking things. I am just trying to wrap my head around SE.

Thanks for all your help!!!

So with SE you don't create a runtime like with ME. As a result, you never have the option to create a version this or a version that.

FactoryTalk View SE (HMI) Server is the "run-time" and typically runs on a Windows Server machine. You also have a Data Server which could be on the same PC or a separate machine. The Data Server could be running RSLinx Enterprise or an OPC Server. Or both. Distributed applications allow for multiple HMI and Data Servers along with redundancy options. Each piece requires a license with the HMI license limiting how many displays that HMI server can use.

The client PCs would be running the FactoryTalk View SE Client. The client displays graphics from an HMI Server with data from a Data Server.

When developing/editing this system, your computer would be running FT View Studio to modify the application on the HMI Server. The nice thing here is that you can edit it without needing to re-deploy anything. You can change a graphic, hit save and you are done. That change is now live to the users.

Another thing to remember is that if you are designing a new system, when you install Studio you get the HMI Server (with a time limited license), RSLinx Enterprise Data Server, and client all installed on your computer. So you can develop and test your application on that one PC. Your Studio license does the trick for all of the pieces. Then when you are ready, you can deploy the HMI Server(s) to the proper physical machine(s).

Hope that helps,

OG