Any mechanical engineers here?

Hi
I am second year mechanical engineering student interested in PLC programming as a career choice.
Looking at job advertisements it looks like only electrical and electronic engineers are getting hired for this type of job. However i think company would benefit having someone who understands mechanical part of the system and knows PLC. I do have however extremely little knowledge of electrical systems.

Would it be hard for someone with very little electrical knowledge to learn plc?

If you are mechanical engineer working with plc's please share your experiences.
Also what is the best way to get started? From what i can see Siemens and Allen Bradley are the choice of plc here (Ireland)

Thanks

My degree is in mechanical engineering, but I've spent the better part of a 45-year career doing machinery controls. There are several other regulars here with a similar background. I would wager that someone with a only mechanical background is better equipped to come up with the correct size motor to drive a load than someone with only an electrical background.

I am second year mechanical engineering student interested in PLC programming as a career choice.

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I've lost count of the number of times I've had to make this point. There aren't many jobs where all you do is program PLCs. The PLC is only one tool out of many that you need to master to be able to implement a robust control scheme for a machine or process.

Looking at job advertisements it looks like only electrical and electronic engineers are getting hired for this type of job.

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That's only because so many of the components used to control things are electrical.

However i think company would benefit having someone who understands mechanical part of the system and knows PLC.

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Anybody who has overall responsibility for a complete machine or process agrees with you. Unfortunately, if the definition of the job qualifications is left up to the HR department, that point can be missed.

Would it be hard for someone with very little electrical knowledge to learn plc?

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Not at all.

Regardless of whether your degree is EE, ME, Mechatronics or whatever, as the person responsible for the controls, you will find that need to comfortable with the mechanical side of things. When a new machine gets commissioned at the end user's facility, the last person from the builder to leave is the controls person. The riggers get the equipment into position and aligned. The erectors get all the pieces bolted together. The controls person has to make them fly in formation. For some unknown reason, if someone bumps a photocell out of alignment, the mechanical guy gets to back off saying "That's electrical. I don't do electrical". But if a timing belt breaks and the only person around is the controls guy, he's expected to replace the belt.

I am also an ME who started a business and made a career designing and programming process controls. I am a self-taught PLC programmer. In my experience writing code is simpler than understanding the process and the mechanical equipment, and has proven an advantage in developing systems that meet the user's needs. If you watch this forum for a while you will see lots of questions based on poor understanding of the mechanical and process systems.

Getting past HR canned job requirements is tough, at least until you can show some experience. All I can say is keep pushing, and talk to any contacts you know in the industry. I also suggest touching base with suppliers if you know any.

Not sure about Ireland, but outside the US Siemens is very common. Omron is another brand seen a lot.

Good luck.

Having a mechanical background will be hugely advantageous, but I'd suggest getting up to speed with as much electrical as possible, not just the PLC and programming side of things. It's one thing to understand how a PLC works, it's quite another to understand how the signals behave once they leave the Magic Box. And as someone who's come into PLC's from an electrical background, trust me on this: when it comes to commissioning, all problems are a problem with the code until proven otherwise - and after that, they're electrical problems until proven otherwise - and only after that do they even maybe become mechanical faults. So to work with PLC's and commissioning, you absolutely need to be able to do basic electrical troubleshooting.

That said, if you get a bit of electrical training under your belt, you'll be a triple threat, and will never ever be short of job offers!

I also have a mechanical engineering degree and have been doing controls since graduation (about 15 years now, I guess). In fact, of the six of us in our company's controls department, 3 of us have mechanical degrees. I'd echo the other posters sentiments, that it's helpful to have an understanding of machine mechanics since you will be the guy that makes it all work in the end.

Since I didn't get an electrical degree I may be mistaken, but I suspect that neither PLC programming nor knowledge of the national electric code was part of the standard curriculum for EE's. I was fortunate that my first employer did not make all of its hiring decisions based on degree. And once you have a couple years experience, most job listings will say something like "BS in Electrical Engineering or related field". It hasn't become an issue.

So my advice would be to try to find an internship where you can get some hands-on experience. Having any relevant experience would be a huge advantage for when you look for a full-time job after college

Yet another PLC guy here with a background in mechanical engineering. +1 to what everyone said here.

I might add from personal experience that smaller companies are far less restrained by short sighted HR departments. If the company is small enough, there is no HR and you get to talk directly to either an engineer or owner who is familiar with all aspects of his business. They tend to be more appreciative of candidates with a diverse background and value the addition they can bring to their small team. I find the small companies more fun to work for. Direct communication, quick time from engineering to market, agile, and last but not least one individual (yes, that would be *you*) can really make a difference for the entire company.

Another ME here. As ASF says, troubleshooting is a major part of commissioning and you will be at a great disadvantage if you cannot do it yourself.

But out in the field even EEs are not "qualified" to do electrical work either. If you are competent then people will assume that you are whatever they expect you to be.

Geoff White said:

But out in the field even EEs are not "qualified" to do electrical work either. If you are competent then people will assume that you are whatever they expect you to be.

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That's one of my personal annoyances with the state-based licensing system here. I can legally perform electrical work in 5 of the 8 states and territories. I can design a panel from the ground up. I can build it with my own hands. I can program it all up and make it do anything you want. I can develop and validate a safety system, including all the electrical controls. But the second that panel crosses the border into one of the other three states, I have to call in another electrician to run a single 24V wire from a relay to a terminal, or to put a megger on a motor to confirm it needs changing. It's beyond stupid.

I have no idea how it works in the US, but that's something else for the OP to consider I guess - having electrical knowledge is not the same thing as having an electrical qualification or an electrical license. How much that matters at the coalface depends on your local regulations, and in large part, who's site you're on.

I don't think it makes much difference whether you have an EE or ME degree. Programming is more of an art than a science. Everyone will have different styles. However, it is best if you have a good idea of all the related fields you are working in. Over time you will obtain this knowledge if you stick with it.
The big thing is the ability to learn and to keep up with changes ( keep learning ).

I am on the other end - an electrical fitter - we learned proper electrical as well including service work, breakdowns, control panel, HV transformers, motor winding etc. For breakdown and service work you soon learned about mechanical/hydraulic/pneumatic things. Added to that we had a large machine shop where we learned to manufacturer motor shafts and all sorts of things. The biggest thing to me is understanding a machine and how it works or is supposed to work.

My background is EE, but while getting my degree, I worked as a multi-craft maintenance technician. Most of the work I performed at the time was mechanical which has helped me tremendously in doing controls.

Like treellama said, we didn't really go over PLC programming or the NEC in my degree. I took an 8 week electricians class which really helped me with the NEC. Most of the PLC programming I know is self taught or I learned from other engineers I've worked with.

As I tell the ME's, "Inside every ME is a Controls Engineer struggling to get out".

Also referred to as "The Arts & Crafts Group" around here...

Peter Nachtwey said:

I don't think it makes much difference whether you have an EE or ME degree. Programming is more of an art than a science.

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As a Mechatronic Engineer, I prefer the brute force style. If you ever seen anything I've done that looks elegant or has some finesse; it was probably by mistake.

Thanks for reply everyone. What is the best way to start? Buy book, second hand plc or what?
Thanks again

Geoff White said:

If you are competent then people will assume that you are whatever they expect you to be.

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This is getting added to my unfamous quotes. It doesn't matter what degree you have, it is what you know and what you can learn. College is not a trade school. A degree requires coursework in that general area, and some courses from other disciplines. When I was in college, controls courses were offered in Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, General Engineering, and Chemical Engineering, but there wasn't a Controls Engineer degree.

Since most controls involves instrumentation, having basic electrical understanding is needed, but the degree is not. Controls configuration is a form of programming, and understanding of networks is very helpful, so some CS background is very helpful. Then depending on what you are trying to control, other areas are helpful. Chemical Engineering if you are working with distillation or chemical reactions. Mechanical engineering for boilers and motion control. Electrical if you are doing more with motors, starters, transformers and VFDs. Knowledge on NEC, NFGA, building permits, EPA permitting, MSHA and OSHA would be good too, but I suspect most control guys did not get any of this from college, but picked it up after they started in industry.

Over the years I've seen many competent control guys, some electrical, mechanical, chemical, ag, general, and many without engineering degrees or even any degree. Then again, I've also seen many incompetent controls guys, some electrical, some mechanical, some chemical, etc. It always amazes me how far people can go knowing so little, giving less effort.

But anyway, If I were to hire a mechanical engineer (or any engineer) coming out of college for a controls position, I'd want to see that they took coursework in at least the following areas. Basics of electricity and circuit. Courses in programming. Coursework in classical control theory. If they didn't have these courses, they'd have a tough time convincing me of their interest in the controls field.