KEPDirect to Wonderware InTouch - some tags not working

Hi, we have a Wonderware InTouch 9.x setup which is reading some tags from a KEPDirect server.

I just added a new floating point tag to KEPDirect, and then added the tag to InTouch on the same machine. It works fine - can see the value and it updates with all the other tags.

Then I went to another machine and added the same tag. Also works fine.

Went to two other machines and added the tag. On these two, it always reports a 0.0 value, no matter what I have tried. I have verified the Access Name, the Tag Name, etc, and have directly compared it to the working systems. The settings are identical.

Also, all the systems are successfully reading *other* tags from the same KEPDirect server!


All machines are on the same LAN.

I have rebooted the machines, restarted the SuiteLink services, etc. and it continues to report zero.

Incidentally, the dotfield .QualityStatus reports "Good" (3) on the working machines and "Bad" (0) on the non-working machines.

Does anyone have any ideas what I'm missing here?

Thanks!

Are you sure the access names and nodes in Intouch are correct in all machines?
Are the access names different?

The Access Names are already set up on all machines, and other tags are being read and displayed from the same Access Name.

I checked and double checked to ensure the tag name matches the tagname in KEPDirect.

Again this is working in two PCs, and in two other PCs it's not working. It's as if the tagname database is not getting updated on these PCs... any way to force this to happen?

The two PCs that worked were instantaneous - as soon as I added the new tag and dropped a display box on the screen, it worked. So I assumed nothing else needed to be refreshed or reset anywhere.

ryangriggs said:

The Access Names are already set up on all machines, and other tags are being read and displayed from the same Access Name.

I checked and double checked to ensure the tag name matches the tagname in KEPDirect.

Again this is working in two PCs, and in two other PCs it's not working. It's as if the tagname database is not getting updated on these PCs... any way to force this to happen?

The two PCs that worked were instantaneous - as soon as I added the new tag and dropped a display box on the screen, it worked. So I assumed nothing else needed to be refreshed or reset anywhere.

Click to expand...

Tagname database is updated as soon as you make tag.
You can do a database dump and verify tag, but it should be same as what you see in tagname directory.
Did you check "Log Viewer" in SMC (Sytsem Management Console) for errors?

I found the problem. As usual, a short between the keyboard and chair, but I would be interested to know why this actually works to begin with.

On the non-working machines, the Access Name has a different Application Name and Topic Name than the working machines. See the screenshots below.

What I don't understand: how are the non-working machines getting *any* data from KEPDirect? They are updating other tags correctly with valid data, but just not my new tag.

I have checked and the correct Application Name, as defined in KEPDirect Properties, is "server_runtime".

I can't find a separate instance of KEPDirect running on the server which would have the Application Name "view". Is this some sort of internal hidden name? How does this actually provide any valid data to the other machines?

PROBLEM: When I change the Application Name and Topic Name on the non-working machines to the correct values, all other tags which were connected to KEPDirect stop working. I am assuming they are using different naming conventions, but I still can't figure out where the "phantom" server is coming from. It's the same IP address as our KEPDirect server, and there's only one instance running that I can see.

NON-WORKING Access Name:


WORKING access name:

ryangriggs said:

I can't find a separate instance of KEPDirect running on the server which would have the Application Name "view". Is this some sort of internal hidden name?

Click to expand...

"View" is the name of the executable file for InTouch WindowViewer.

It's starting to make sense now! So these other systems are pulling their tags from InTouch running on the server, instead of using the KEPDirect server? Am I understanding this correctly?

So in that case, I would use the tagname I created on the server's InTouch to access the tag, instead of the KEPDirect tag name? Confusing, but makes sense now.

Thanks!

Bit_Bucket_07 said:

"View" is the name of the executable file for InTouch WindowViewer.

Click to expand...

ryangriggs said:

I found the problem. As usual, a short between the keyboard and chair, but I would be interested to know why this actually works to begin with.

On the non-working machines, the Access Name has a different Application Name and Topic Name than the working machines. See the screenshots below.

What I don't understand: how are the non-working machines getting *any* data from KEPDirect? They are updating other tags correctly with valid data, but just not my new tag.

I have checked and the correct Application Name, as defined in KEPDirect Properties, is "server_runtime".

I can't find a separate instance of KEPDirect running on the server which would have the Application Name "view". Is this some sort of internal hidden name? How does this actually provide any valid data to the other machines?

PROBLEM: When I change the Application Name and Topic Name on the non-working machines to the correct values, all other tags which were connected to KEPDirect stop working. I am assuming they are using different naming conventions, but I still can't figure out where the "phantom" server is coming from. It's the same IP address as our KEPDirect server, and there's only one instance running that I can see.

NON-WORKING Access Name:

WORKING access name:

Click to expand...

I usually use (local) as "Node Name" or leave it empty. That way when I move the app to a different pc or machine , I do not need to edit addresses on the node name.

Also other problems can show up...
Lets says you move or copy this app to a pc addressed 10.0.0.3, that is also running kepserver. The app will still use the kepserver on 10.0.0.2 until you change the node addresss in the access name to 10.0.0.3. THIS also means you are controlling/monitoring 10.0.0.2 and not 10.0.0.3....problem
I only use an address in the node name if I am using an IO server on a different pc for tag access.

Understood. So it seems the designers were using KEPDirect on the server (10.0.0.2), and were accessing KEPDirect directly from the InTouch project also running on the server.

But from some (not all!) of the other PCs, they referenced the server's IP address (10.0.0.2) in the Access Name, but used the 'view' application instead of KEPDirect, so the tags are coming from the server's InTouch application.

What would be the purpose of this, other than to make things confusing? Is there a benefit to reading the InTouch tags instead of the KEPDirect tags on the server?

They were obviously not mistaken in copying the Access Name from another machine, because they referenced 'view' instead of 'server_runtime'. This had to be by design, but *what* design escapes me!

Thanks!

NetNathan said:

I usually use (local) as "Node Name" or leave it empty. That way when I move the app to a different pc or machine , I do not need to edit addresses on the node name.

Also other problems can show up...
Lets says you move or copy this app to a pc addressed 10.0.0.3, that is also running kepserver. The app will still use the kepserver on 10.0.0.2 until you change the node addresss in the access name to 10.0.0.3.
I only use an address in the node name if I am using an IO server on a different pc for tag access.

Click to expand...

When i am using Intouch I never bother building all the tags on Kepserver, or Matrikon, or Topserver. It becomes too confusing and unnecessary.
I would rather just have Intouch handle assigning the name of the tag to the IO point.
However...... I have maybe built 1 tag on the IO Server just to verify it is talking to device.

ryangriggs said:

What would be the purpose of this, other than to make things confusing? Is there a benefit to reading the InTouch tags instead of the KEPDirect tags on the server?

Click to expand...

There can be. Suppose you have an application in which the operator enters text names for silo contents or blending recipes. If you want that data to be reflected globally, on multiple HMIs, then you either need to write them to tags in your PLC or share them with the other HMI nodes via View.

Might also be a licensing issue with the number of nodes kepware supported....tagging to WW would circumvent any such restrictions.

These IO Servers are not made just for programs like Intouch, that is why they have so much power....even scaling and logging.
They talk across many different platforms and some need tagnames assigned for the same reason Intouch uses tagnames.
Iee...to talk to Excel they have o support DDE and making the tagnames in the IO Server and the calling the tagname in Excel is better organization.