Siemens S5

Hello to all!!

althou i have some experience in S7, i'm not very familiar with S5...well, i'm not familiar at all!!!

command in S5 are diferent from S7! does any one can inform me what command theres are in S5 (commun to S7) and how they are written?

And what are the main diferences between S5 and S7?

I looked for this info in the internet but all i found was german literature, i don't get a thing!!!

Thankx in advance!!!

zezito

Here are some links to Step5 manuals (in English) from the Siemens support site:-

Click here This one is for the Step 5 V7.2 software manual.

Click here This one is the 'pocket guide' to the CPU945, which contains the programming instructions used in S5.

They might contain the information that you require.

Paul

I have a lot of experience with S5 and S7 but I don't think I could list all the differences in a post. Anything specific? This is a broad subject.

Cheers

Also, what kind of S5 do you have to work with ?
(90U, 95U, 100U, 101U, 115U, 135U, 155U, others..)

And what kind of programming software is available to you ?
("STEP5" - in what version, or "S5 for Windows", or other..).

Here are a FEW things I can think of, off the top of my head:

In S5 the variables are not assigned types as in S7 (no INT, DINT, WORD etc.). And therefore there is no typechecking.

The editor is MORE stringent when it comes to allowing the display to switch to LAD or FBD. If the code cannot fit on the screen, then it will display as STL.

There are no IEC timers. Only the fixed number of S5Timers are available. As you can easily run out of timers, programmers use numerous ways of making their own. The most "popular" is to use the S5Counters as timers.

You cannot address individual bits in DBs as you can in S7 (no DB1.DBX5.2 for example). This forces you to use Merkers as intermediary storage when manipulating bits in DBs.

Analog i/o is normally accessed via system FBs (FB250/FB251 if I remember correctly).
In some CPUs analog i/o can be accessed as PW (periferiewort) (At least I think so, I am beginning to feel vague when it comes to this).

In 90U to 115U i/o adressing is decided by the physical position in the rack.
In 135U and 155U i/o adressing is decided with dip-switches in the modules.

Thats all for now

You cannot address individual bits in DBs as you can in S7 (no DB1.DBX5.2 for example). This forces you to use Merkers as intermediary storage when manipulating bits in DBs.

Click to expand...

If i remember correctly

Su d10.7 or RU d10.7 for setting and resetting

or

TB d10.7 for checking status

Analog i/o is normally accessed via system FBs (FB250/FB251 if I remember correctly).
In some CPUs analog i/o can be accessed as PW (periferiewort) (At least I think so, I am beginning to feel vague when it comes to this).

Click to expand...

Quite correct although I think not much different to S7, which uses pheriphal words with the option of using fc105 and 106 as scaling (like fb250 and 251).

In 90U to 115U i/o adressing is decided by the physical position in the rack.

Click to expand...

or you can purchase a IM 306 and have flexible rack addressing, again quite similar to S7 where you can buy the more expensive processors such as 315-2DP and have flexible addressing amongst I/O.


I'm not trying to pull apart your post Jesper, sorry if it seems like it, but some more specifics are required me thinks.



Cheers

If memory serves, setting/resetting a bit in a data word was a very slow operation. It was quicker to do as Jesper suggested and transfer to a FW (MW), set the bit, then transfer it back.

Specifics eh ?

randomFire said:

Su d10.7 or RU d10.7 for setting and resetting

or

TB d10.7 for checking status

Click to expand...

Never too late to learn something old
But its definitely not the same as just accessing a variable via DBx.DBXy.z. You have to specify the DB beforehand. And it limits you to STL.

randomFire said:

Quite correct although I think not much different to S7, which uses pheriphal words with the option of using fc105 and 106 as scaling (like fb250 and 251).

Click to expand...

For the smaller S5s you cannot use PWs - only FB250/FB251.
The use of FC105/FC106 is optional in S7 (I use my own blocks). The starting point is PIWs/PQWs anyway. So it is not similar to S5.

randomFire said:

or you can purchase a IM 306 and have flexible rack addressing, again quite similar to S7 where you can buy the more expensive processors such as 315-2DP and have flexible addressing amongst I/O.

Click to expand...

Thats a bit esoteric methinks. Most 'regular' applications have the fixed address system (for the smaller S5s).
You dont need to go to 315-2DP to get adjustable addressing. From 312 you can set the addresses of the individual modules in the rack.

Re: Specifics eh ?

JesperMP said:

And it limits you to STL.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ on that point Jesper,

See the two pictures below, the first on shows me 'calling' DB25 in LAD.



This one shows me using the data block bits, again in ladder.



This would be with a 945CPU, I wouldn't know if this was nay different for other CPU's as this is the only type I have had the pleasure of working with.

Paul

Well, I'll be damned, i was wrong then, you CAN access DB bits in LAD in S5.
Just out of curiosity: Did STEP5 then convert the LAD/FBD code to the SU Dy.z and RU Dy.z previously mentioned ?
How does a regular "coil" like the one in your example look like in STL ?
There is no similar instruction like = Dy.z in the manual.
Is it done with a jump and a pair of SU + RU ?

edit: Oh I see that the coil is a "Q" address.
Is a coil then at all possible with DB addresses ?

The use of FC105/FC106 is optional in S7 (I use my own blocks). The starting point is PIWs/PQWs anyway. So it is not similar to S5

Click to expand...

maybe a little similar.......


How about scan times are slower (typical 120ms CPU 944 - maybe 40ms 315-2DP), placement of analog modules are restricted (first 6 slots only - from memory), DBs are limited to 256 words, communications networks are awkward to setup, operations like transfers / adds / minus are not RLO dependant causing the use of jump conditions, where S7 lends itself to a lot more user friendly RLL programming.
S7 also holds a lot of pre-programmed operations in libraries available to pull out and use off the shelf. S5 was left to you, bar the odd multipy/divide block.

I must say I haven't used S5 for a few months (years maybe) and would be open to mistakes on technical data. For bigger CPUs like 135/155 I am unsure about.

If memory serves, setting/resetting a bit in a data word was a very slow operation. It was quicker to do as Jesper suggested and transfer to a FW (MW), set the bit, then transfer it back.

Click to expand...

Can't remember but I didn't suggest using it. Much better as you say to use flags.

Thats a bit esoteric methinks

Click to expand...

I'm off to www.dictionary.com..........

well....know i think i'm much more confused!!!!

seriuos... yhank you guys for you help!

the links Plucas advised were very helpfull!

but thank you ALL for your post

please continue to discuss here diferences between S5 / S7 i think it

will have great interest to all guys (like me) that never worked with S5!

ThankX

Big difference...Step5 is faster than Step7.

Just thought of a few more:
For some CPUs, to make online programming you have to install a RAM module in the memory module slot.
When you were finished with making online editing, you could exchange the RAM module for an EPROM and make the changes permanent.

If you have an EEPROM (expensive) it can be programmed in the CPU.
If you have en UVPROM it can only be programmed in an external prommer or in a PG, and it can only be erased in an UV eraser.

JesperMP said:

Is a coil then at all possible with DB addresses ?

Click to expand...

Jesper

Perhaps the two pictures below will answer that question:-





These are both after calling the DB in a previous network.

Paul

If you switch to STL how does it look like ?
I ask because there is no =Dx.y instruction in the manual that I am looking at now (well, it is for 95U so maybe that is the explanation).