PLC Step7 BackUp

Hi,

Is anyone here aware if you can upload a Step7 program from a PLC and keep the comments / symbolic information. I'm 99.9 % sure it's impossible but some people here are arguing otherwise. I just want to put this matter to rest.

Also, is anyone aware of an automated PLC Backup procedure for Siemens PLCs. Is there anyway or any product out there that would allow us to do this?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

R.K.

Is anyone here aware if you can upload a Step7 program from a PLC and keep the comments / symbolic information.

Click to expand...

I've been told it's possible, but only on certain, newer type, CPUs. It should be possible on CPUs with an MMC memory card, eg CPU314 version 10 or CPU 313C-2DP. I have those CPUs, but have however not tested it yet.

Kind regards,

The new Series 300 CPUs with the MMC memory cards allow you to do this. There are, however, a couple of caveats.

The storing of the project (yes you can store the complete project on the MMC) does not happen automatically, you have to do it explicitly. Now I've got two problems, a) I'm at home without S7, b) I use a German version and don't know what the English Menu terms are (as I recently discovered in another Thread, the Menu structures are not even always the same between English and German versions!). However, it must be something along the lines of:

Target System -> Store user program on MMC (just program, but I believe (I DON'T know), with Comments)

or

Target System -> Store on Memory Card (This I have used, you can then store any File, from any Directory, including, of course a ZIPped archive of the Project. I haven't tried it, but I would think that you could also store the complete Sub-directory system of the Project out of the s7proj SUb-directory - but why bother!)

And that brings us to the second problem. because of the horrendous cost of Siemens MMCs, most people tend to buy the smallest MMC necessary to hold the run-time program, say 128 kB. You're going to need at least 512 kB to store the smallest Project (unless it's a real mini! Don't forget the run-time program still has to fit on the MMC).

In trying to understand Rusty's question, given you have a programmer and a plc, where are the symbols and comments you're trying to save. In the programmer or in the plc ?

I think that the functions PLC .. Save to Memory Card and PLC .. Retrieve from Memory Card does just that: Saves and retrieves the entire project including the symbols and comments.
The help text doesnt explicitly mention MMC cards for the newer S7-300 CPUs, only "Memory Cards" and "Newer CPUs". So I would say that it may be possible even on an S7-400.
The size of the project file will be the same as the ZIP file that is generated by the Archive function. So the MC or MMC card has to be large enough to fit this file.

I have never tried to do that myself though.

If Rusty's question is more about how to merge an online S7 program with offline symbols and comments, then I think it can be done by opening both offline and online projects at the same time in STEP7, and then drag-and-drop blocks from the online project to the offline project.
Again, I have never tried that myself.
There is the risk that network comments may get unsyncronised, if networks has been removed or inserted in the online project.

If this function works, it will be of great help on a project I am now on.
Monday morning, I will try to backup my project to the PLC (a 314C-2DP) and see if it works. I will report back either success or failure.

Doug

comments

you can move the comments with a tool

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12542

Hey,

Thanks for all the replies. What I wanted to know, is if you connected to a PLC without any offline program, and you wanted to upload it with all the comments etc...is there a way to do this?

Those tools look pretty good Ivan.ru, but boy do I wish it was in English

Cheers

R.K.

I've already read somewhere, even in S7-200 series they now have the option to load the whole program+comments, etc but is restricted to the S7-2xx XM models only, if I'm not mistaken this special Memory module also provides 64K as compared to earlier 16K capacity.

the answer is - yes, if the plc is one of the newer ones with a MMC and IF the original programmer saved the entire project to the MMC, otherwise it's an emphatic no.

Monday was a public holiday, so I got to try it today. Results, not good.
Overall, I failed to save the program. This was because the card was only 64K in size. I learned that the "8MB" displayed in the module information was the maximum size card available, not the card that was in there. I also learned that you can only save the actual program (with comments, of course). You cannot save the hardware configuration. You cannot save the program for any touch screens attached to the PLC. You cannot save the entire project. You can only save the program, comments and I think the symbol table, but I am not sure.
I also found that if you try to download a program into a card that is too small, the PLC won't re-start. I had to cycle the power. I then found I lost all the setpoints and had to spend an hour or so reloading them by hand.
My overall assessment is that since it only saves the program, it is probably not that useful, at least not for my company. Also, the consequences of a mistake are too much. I don't think I will try this again. From now on, I continue to use my memory stick for saving the program.

Doug

About the hardware config: When you upload from the PLC you will also upload the current hardware configuration. Important is though, that the uploaded HW config will contain the bare minimum of information. For example, the last digits of the various module type numbers will not be "filled in".

I think that the functionality as described by Doug is certainly useful if you find yourself onsite with no original program.
But it also means that it is essential to keep a "real" backup on another media.

Auto Backup?

Thank-you guys so much for all the help...this really clears up a lot of questions.

Just wondering if any of you have heard of an auto backup system for Siemens PLCs?

Monday was a public holiday, so I got to try it today. Results, not good.
Overall, I failed to save the program. This was because the card was only 64K in size. I learned that the "8MB" displayed in the module information was the maximum size card available, not the card that was in there. I also learned that you can only save the actual program (with comments, of course). You cannot save the hardware configuration. You cannot save the program for any touch screens attached to the PLC. You cannot save the entire project. You can only save the program, comments and I think the symbol table, but I am not sure.

Click to expand...

Why is it I can't resist a challenge!

First the qualifications - this is probably CPU dependant. The tests I made were made using a 317-2DP and a 314C-2DP.

under PLC -> Save to Memory Card, you get a window with, in effect three options.

The first two are Check Boxes (prechecked on opening) offering:
1) Save current User Program (incl. HW-Configuration)
2) Save current Project.

There is also adjacent to these choices a large yellow triangle with an exclamation mark and the warning that "if you select "Save current User Program", the complete MMC will be erased!!!

According to the help file, "Save current Project" creates and saves an archive file, but you can reduce the size of the file by deleting the X-Reference data from the Extras Menu, before saving.

The third part of the box is a two window setup called "Other Files" where you can select files from the left-hand window and copy them over to the right-hand window to be saved to the MMC - always assuming your MMC is big enough!

According to the help file, here you can copy any files which are visible in Explorer to the MMC, regardless of type. I.e. .zip, .xls, .doc, .txt, etc. are all permissible.

I tried this and successfully copied the project's archive .zip file to the MMC. The file is 2.5 MB in size and Step7 showed an expected transfer time of 7,5 min. In fact (via Profibus at 1.5 MB) it took just over three minutes.

Using PLC -> Retrieve from Memory Card, I was then able to copy the file back up to the PC.

The only thing you don't appear to be able to do here, is to delete files directly (I didn't try overwriting the file). To do that you have to have a Prommer and access it via the Files -> S7-Memory card -> Open, Menu.

So to sum it up, on these CPUs at least, you can backup your complete project in a variety of ways on the MMC, as well as saving any other files you want - always assuming your MMC is big enough.