Open Source HMI

jimbo3123

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Sep 2003
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Detroit Area
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I've been thinking about working on such a project, so I figured I'd do a little research. It turns out that there is a group that has already put something together.

http://visual.sourceforge.net/new/index.php

They have a program, although they say it is in the pre-alpha state now.

If this program were to develop into a fully functional package, and if it were comperable in usage to other PC based HMI packages on the market (RSView, Cimplicity, etc.) do any of you guys think that you could use such a thing?

Would it be easier to sell people on the idea if it ran under Windows instead of Linux? Maybe both?

Personally, I can't see it being used on the type of equipment that I usually work with (automotive industry). At least not unless it became a common practice kind of thing. I'm sure that would take a number of years though.

However, I am interested in the project and possibly contributing to its development, if only to satisfy my own interest in the "behind the scenes" operation and communications of PLCS.
 
If you want to generate reports in Excel, it helps to have Windows.

On the other hand the constant nannying and security patches by Microsoft don't give me a lot of confidence in Windows based control software. That's why you put PLCs in the system and program them to be self-reliant.

Right now, we're struggling through ActiveX version issues and the impact it has on RSViewSE. I've got sympathy for Rockwell on this issue. Why should installing the latest version of Office cause my HMI pull-down menus to die? It makes me think that control software ought to run its own OS...

AK
 
jimbo3123,

Thanks for the link. Very interesting...I just fired off an E-mail about this to my boss. He was looking for a cheap HMI to use on an experimental process pilot plant, the type of trial run that may flop so big that the least amount of money spent, the better it will be for all concerned. Right now, according to Source Forge, this program interfaces with Allen-Bradley SLC 503 and Micrologix, plus Siemens S7 and some other PLCs.
 
You can always do a simple one using any of the Visual language, such as VB. The lesson I learned, however, is that it don't take much for consulting fee > HMI Price. Which is another reason that Open Source HMI will be a long time (read: never) before they are ready for prime time. There is a 1/2 way solution though, pay for pre-build activeX object to use in a Visual Basic. Not as much as a full-blown HMI. Remember Rockwell's RSTool?
 
I've been thinking about working on such a project, so I figured I'd do a little research. It turns out that there is a group that has already put something together.

and you can get more information from the horse's mouth right here on PLCS.net.
 
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I'm definately of mixed minds when it comes to any 'Open Source' package for automation work.

Advantages:
-- Much lower cost for runtime/development software
-- Easy to extend for custom functions (if you program in C/C++/C#/Whatever it was programmed in.)
-- Few, if any, licensing issues.

Disadvantages:
-- No 2AM plant down I NEED EMERGENCY SUPPORT NOW availability
-- Non-standard systems, as the programmer, or just HMI developer, you own it. It's your baby. (YOU are in perpetuity the 2AM plant down THEY NEED EMERGENCY SUPPORT NOW person).
-- Serious time lag in dealing with updates to external things (PLC Hardware, Operating systems, new Video cards, etc)
-- From an Integrators point of view - Very difficult to sell to customers that more and more are demanding standard, off-the-shelf Hardware, software, and networks
-- Cost. Yes, actually, this can be a disadvantage. Even looking at spending several thousand dollars for, say, InTouch 60K runtime, in the scope of a typical job that requires it, $5000 is nothing compared to the rest of the hardware, and especially compared to the engineering time to develop the application.
-- Product Life Cycle. Again, open-source means you own it. The project could die, leaving you stuck on your own. The development team could decide they were doing things wrong, take a 90 degree turn, and rework the entire thing in another direction. End users like the fact that they are pretty much assured of a fairly smooth upgrade path when using Interact, InTouch, RSView, et al.

-------------------
So much for the basic list. If such a project were to be viable, it should run both on Windows and Linux. Many times, I've had to run third-party software in tandem with my HMI's, and the third-party stuff is invariably written for Windows only.

I agree with the several of the above posters; (Harryting) For simple one-off things, Visual Basic may be the easiest way to go, and is very customizable.
(akreel) - I feel your pain... Just did a network upgrade to one of my ViewSE installations, at the same time Office was being upgraded. All my date/time pickers broke.
 
Look at the development time!
It has been pre-alpha for a few years.
When this happens on source forge net, it means lack of interest.
This project will never go anywhere.

If an open source HMI is developed, and is reliable enough to use, it won't come from this project. For this type of development to work, it has to be sponsored by one or more companies who are convinced that they can make money out of it. Perhapse releasing it on the market and charging for support, or some other business model.
 
Our company has a home-grown HMI for some of our machines.
It was originally based on VB, and later on C++.
We need to have one guy constantly supporting it.

The latest decisions with respect to HMI software is to stop making the HMI software ourselves, and in stead only use shrink-wrapped poducts.

With the fast changing hardware and software it became more and more costly to maintain the home-grown HMI.
 
/agree 100% Jesper

Even from my viewpoint, as an OEM/SI...While my boss may like the idea of charging end-users for upgrades and support, the actual time and effort involved goes up nearly exponentially with each new installation.

/sigh

There are times I really really miss discrete timers, relays, pushbuttons, and analog meters.
 
Doug_Adam said:
Look at the development time!
It has been pre-alpha for a few years.
When this happens on source forge net, it means lack of interest.
This project will never go anywhere.
It's my project. I agree with Doug that there has been a "lack of interest". As I didn't get too much feedback, I lost interest in it myself.

Regarding the pre-alpha state:
I wanted to express two things when I chose this categorization:
1. I'm open to suggestions putting into question the basics of the architecture.
2. Do not expect to get something that will run without considerable effort from your own part.
In fact, I have an installation (3 servers, 2 PLCs, 4 measurement devices, 3 operator stations) running for 21 month nearly 7*24 hours in an industrial plant.
 

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