Can you help me do some networking?

Hi All!
This is my first time posting here, so be gentle...

I am new at the PLC side of our equipment, and enjoy it greatly. Only thing is, I now have a project to try to work up and impliment if possible. We do not have a very good set of documents to go by, so I was hoping you may be able to help.

We have extrusion lines in the house with AB SLC-5 PLC's installed, and we are wanting to network them all together to track line speeds, etc.

What all would I have to do to do this fairly easy and cost effective?

They want the data to be accessable from 1 or possibly more PC's. We allready have a in house network set up for the usual PC's, but the lines are not included yet. Is it possible to do this without a lot of extra equipment,etc.?

Thanks in advance for even reading this!

Also, what kind of software would you use for something like this? ANY input or ideas are greatly appreciated!

Hello.
I'm also new at this but I just want to try my guess. Modbus for communications between PLCs and link up to maybe a PC or more PCs with scada network. So maybe processors with a scanner module or with Modbus might do.

Am I correct to say so?

regards
Sherine T.

Depending on the exact SLC-5 model, My first suggestion would be DH+ between the PLCs. Or if they are 5/05 PLCs then you could just use Ethernet directly. If you use DH+ I would suggest a DH+ interface card and RSLinx Pro. This route will require both of those for each PC that you want to be able to read the data on.

By SLC-5 I assume you mean 5/05 which has a built in ethernet port.

What is the distance between the lines, and the collection point?
How are you going to collect/use this data? Some type of SCADA package? OPC?
Are you planning on connecting you mfg. and business LAN's together? If so, what about security?

Hello again.

I am almost positive in saying that they (the CPU) is a 5/03. I will look at them tonight to be sure though.

The lines are anywhere from 25 ft apart to almost 300 ft.

The possible collection points are roughly centered between the lines, except for the one that is 300 ft away.

Making wire and cable means a LOT of walking!

The 5/03 has 2 channels, channel 1 is DH485 which allows 32 devices per node and total distance of 4000 feet. This link offers details:
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12762/2181376/214372/1535907/

This is the link for the manual that also has networking info:
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/1747-um011_-en-p.pdf

I would use a dedicated PC with RSLogix500, RSLinx Pro, DH485 adapter and ethernet adapter. You connect this PC to the DH485 network then you can setup a DDE topic with excel to collect data, the excel spreadsheet could be put on the internal LAN.

I dont think DH485 is the most robust network option available, can bottleneck depending on network traffic. The more experience AB users will need to verify if I am correct on this.

Overall this seems to be the simplest and least expensive option. There are other features that can be applied to this too.

I would think using NetENI modules will be just as cost effective if not better.

I have not checked on the cost of AIC Link Couplers, but the card for the PC will have a pretty steep cost. In the neighborhood of $1500 I think? If I remember correctly, the NetENI modules are probably in the same price range as the AIC Link Coupler. So this alone makes it equal in cost, but the fact that you would not have to buy a proprietary card for the PC is the bonus. I believe you would have to have RSLinx Professional if you want to configure a topic for Data Aquisition, so no savings there. The best thing about the NetENI's is that they are ethernet, so you are not having to set up a whole new proprietary network.

David

Thank you all so much for the replies!

I will be checking out the links and info you all provided for me. I believe that the idea of a dedicated PC will be more to their liking.

Things are real slow for us right now, and this will be a good project to keep me awake for awhile!

I hope to beable to update you all in a day or 2 as to how it goes, etc.

You all are a great bunch of people. I have learned so much from you by my just lurking in the shadows, it is unreal!

Keep the ideas flowing! I really do appreciate all the input.

In my experience, conduit, cable, and labor usually cost a lot more than interface modules.

If you have the plant Ethernet network running near to the machines, then the 1761-NET-ENI modules will probably end up being the most cost-effective way to connect these controllers to the plant network and a visualization software package. These modules are about $650 each, list price. There are cheaper Ethernet/RS232 interfaces on the market, but they are generally harder for novices to configure.

If you need to run wire anyhow, you should figure out if the DH485 daisy-chain topology will work in your plant. The 1761-NET-AIC is only about $180, and the 1747-AIC's are about $300.

You will not need a proprietary card for your PC if you choose to use DH-485. The 1747-UIC USB interface to DH485, used with a 1761-Net-AIC or 1747-AIC, is a $270 alternative to the $1700 multi-network 1784-PKTX card.

You can use RSLinx Professional and VB or Excel to create your visualization, or you can run something inexpensive like RSView Machine Edition.

Testimonial:

I set up Plantmetrics data collection on two machines, one using a DH-485 network, and the other a NET-ENI. The ENI was cheaper, and practically set itself up. Go NET-ENI, they are outstanding for hooking ethernet to AB products.

As for RSLinx, you DON'T have to go RSLinx Pro. Get OEM edition for half the price and 90% of the same capabilites, including OPC topics.

You should really enjoy this, it's a fun project

TM

Thanks Ken, I had not checked on that stuff before. I tend to shy away from the 485 route because it can become somewhat limiting. But I see it can be quite cost effective, so I will have to reconsider that. I could not remember if RSLinx OEM would allow topics, but now I will recommit that to memory.


I just remember how easy it was to use a NET ENI module and I would really recommend that because most plants support ethernet networks nowadays, so I believe he would have an easier time of it.

Just remember this, if you are collecting ALOT of data at high rates, you will want to consider isolating the network lines on their own switch.

David

Update:

Hello again everyone.
Sorry about the slow reply....Not enough hours in the day ya know.

I was not even close on the processor model. It is really a 1785-30B/E. The other processor I thought it was initially, was what is in a coiler. Sorry about that!

I had someone mention to me that maybe I could go with wireless. Does this sound possible to you?

Whatever you do, go ethernet.

rangerfreak said:

I had someone mention to me that maybe I could go with wireless. Does this sound possible to you?

Click to expand...

People love the idea of wireless networking in plants; to the point that some absolutely refuse to consider anything else.

I have stepped off of my soap-box about 'absolutely not' when it comes to wireless networking, but I do still make some things very clear.

1) Is this network only for monitoring? That is, NOT for control at all?
A- Yes, monitor only. Wireless is okay, if you don't mind randomly losing data. Installation and follow-up troubleshooting will be billed as time and material, hourly.
B- No, monitor and control. Please sign this nice, legal department prepared, hold-harmless contract for me, and be advised that I will not support such a network.

2) Are you concerned about security, or outsiders accessing your network, and possibly interfering with plant operations?
A- No, that really isn't an issue.
B- Yes, that is a concern.

3) Do you and your staff have the knowledge required to diagnose network problems, or are you willing to pay me to come in and do it?
A- Yes, the staff is knowledgable, or we will gladly give someone else lots of money to keep things running.
B- No, but I have one at home that usually works.

-----------------------

If you answer A to all of the above, give it a shot.

If you answer B to one or more, just run the cable.

Ken wisely stated above that running cable is usually the most costly part of a networking installation; that is true. BUT, it is not an unmanagable cost. There are also many benefits to running a cabled network.

Cabled networks are inherently more secure. They are easier to troubleshoot. They are easier to expand. They are easier to segment out. There are many options for long distances, such as Fiber.

Well, it wont be too bad running the cable,etc. We do make it!

The company I work for only wants to use the network for monitoring line speeds only. My take on it, that is all they will do for now. The future will most likely hold something else though.

The way that they described it to me is that they want the shift supervisor to be able to view the line speed from their desk. Each line in it's own little window, or group of windows, with each one reporting in real time.

Seems and sounds easy enough. I love a good little challenge like this is gonna be.

Wireless is out, hardwire is in. Any other concerns, ideas, etc.?

rangerfreak said:

Update:
I was not even close on the processor model. It is really a 1785-30B/E. The other processor I thought it was initially, was what is in a coiler. Sorry about that!

Click to expand...

That would be 1785-L30B/E - otherwise known as PLC 5/30 rev E

In which case, your network would be DH+ (blue hose) which you can daisy-chain between processors and monitoring PC. No adapters required at PLC's but PC will need a 1784-(P)KTX interface card. Max. cable length 10,000 ft.