HELP! Which PLC & SCADA should I use?

Hello All,

I have a requirement for a PLC and SCADA application.
What I want from you guys if possible is your recommendations and experiences with the different types that you have worked with in the past. Basically, which PLC and SCADA solution works well.

The project has a relatively small I/O count, up to 50 digital in and 40 digital out for the PLC. I prefer using the Allen-Bradley SLC500 PLC but I have used most of the major manufacturers in the past and would also consider using Siemens, Mitsubishi or Telemecanique.

The main features that it must possess are:

*Simple SCADA functionality running on a windows based pc allowing operators to press pushbuttons, display alarms, display text/messages, turn on/off graphics, log alarms etc.

*Allow remote dial up/monitoring if possible of both the PLC and SCADA.

*The client has requested an extended warranty so it must be well supported and have any hardware spares readily available.

*Naturally be cost effective.

*And be able to password protect the source code if possible!


Please let me know your thoughts, any suggestions would be most welcome.
Please feel free to attach any web links that may help.


Andy

Depends on your application...


BUT you did say "Cost Effective" and "Allen Bradley".

You CAN NOT have both together.

Allen Bradley makes some good equipment. You can get some excellant support on this site. If you are willing to pay for it, you can get great support from the factory.

Cost Effective to me breaks down to two companies. With your requirements, An Entertron Elite "LINK" would be a logical choice, or a GE Fanuc unit. You can easily SCADA them both. Entertron has the "LoggeR" for Data logging and downloading, along with a nifty GSM modem. Entertron has FREE software and FREE tech support. I haven't used their eLink Scada software "LINK", but you can check it out. It will DEFINITELY be more cost effective then anything AB or GE has to offer.

GE is a little more pricy, but nothing like Allen Bradley. For comparison, I had three radial tire building machines. Allen Bradley controls for them cost around $22-24,000 in 1996. GE Fanuc 9030 controls cost $2,300 for the same machine, plus had proportional control AND a second serial port. (AB option @ $5,000). I really like GE, that is what I recommend. I find them extremely easy to program and configure, plus get outstanding (FREE) tech support. Plus there are a lot of GE factory and distributor reps on here that offer great assistance. I have used GE's Cimplicity SCADA package, and I was able to get things working without any training or help.

I DO NOT recommend Siemens, as I DO NOT find them very easy to work with. There is support here available. Some members really like Siemans, and are quite proficient with them. I just am not one of them.

regards.....casey

Depends on you & the customer.

There are many PLC's and SCADA packages that meet your requirements. If this was my application I would try to use what ever the customer already uses. If the customer doesn't already have something installed, then go with what you are used to, why have to deal with learning a new system if it's not required.

I would choose a PLC with onboard ethernet, and then a SCADA package. I would use iFix because I know it well, WonderWare is a good package, and I've never tried it but Citect looks interesting and is supposedly less expensive than Fix or Wonderware.

Unitronics

Unitronics Vision 280 or 290. Expansion IO, ethernet option, modbus RTU. Several software options for what you are trying to do, including Remote Control. Can be connected to a GSM cellular modem for dial-in, dial-out (never mind the operator, let the machine call maintenance!).

www.unitronics.com

The good news is most PLC and SCADA packages will work well. Progrmas like PCAnywhere make remote access possible with most systems, at least if the on site PC is running.

The most cost effective applications I've done have used AutomationDirect.com PLCs and Lookout HMI software, either from AutomationDirect.com or for larger systems right from National Instruments. Both are reasonably priced, easy to work with, and well supported.

The WonderWare/Allen Bradley combination is popular, and our applications have been quite succesful. A little pricier, but not outrageous and a reasonable value.

Don't get too hung up on the PLC and HMI software cost. That will probably be less than half of the total investment. If you or the customer are familiar and comfortable with a certain package, you will probably save enough in programming and engineering to offset the up front hardware cost.

All the suggestions are good. kc9ih, I have done alot of controls comparisons, but never had that kind of disparity between AB and GE (and I am quite intimate with both).


My favorites are AB/Rockwell, GE, and Modicon. I have used them quite extensively. I have seen Misubishi(okay), Seimens(just have not worked with it much), and AD(never looked at them that hard, I always considered them toys, but with the following here, I am beginning to change my mind).

HMI's I have used are RSView32, Wonderware, and Cimplicity to a great extent. Have created some simple VB forms at other times as well. I am just getting into Honeywell/Rockwell Plantscape and now beginning to dabble in iFix(When did GE buy them?).

They all have their strongpoints and sometimes I wish I could roll all of them into one. But the best choice is clearly what is most established in your neck of the woods? What brand seems to be king in your area. That will give you the most support. And what are you most comfortable with? AB? Then that is where you should go. Just avoid the PanelView Plus HMI's like the plague....

David

Thanks guys for your replies so far.

Im sure the AB and iFix or Wonderware route offers the "Rolls Royce" solution of SCADA, however I have just noticed the following product:

http://www.schneider.co.uk/products/auto/automation/auto_hmi/web_what.htm

This is the Telemecanique Factorycast HMI.
It seems a good option for my requirements. Low cost (compared to traditional SCADA systems) and from a manufacturer that offers good support and backup.

Has anyone used this before or have any comments about Telemecanique?

kc9ih said:

GE is a little more pricy, but nothing like Allen Bradley. For comparison, I had three radial tire building machines. Allen Bradley controls for them cost around $22-24,000 in 1996. GE Fanuc 9030 controls cost $2,300 for the same machine, plus had proportional control AND a second serial port. (AB option @ $5,000).

Click to expand...

What was included in the "Allen Bradley controls"?

Now I know I have made some silly guesses and comments from time to time, but surely kc9ih you really didn't mean to shred your own credibility with such a comment?

I mean think about it for a few msec; if you really want us to think AB IS 10 times the price of GE in the market, you might need to provide a little more justification for us to treat this idea seriously.

Omron and Citect. My Schneider rep called in on Friday and when I showed him the Omron CJ1 PLC and CX-Programmer (and pricing) he went away with his tail between his legs. Could not believe 64 bit cards in such a small package.

The AB, Siemens and Mitsubishi guys have done the same. The Siemens guy was trying to sell me the S7-300. He could not even come close, quite frankly, with hardware or software. I am looking at Compact and Control Logix however. Bit too pricey for my liking and applications but some very good innovation there. May have an application shortly.

Citect is not cheap but I consider it the very best SCADA on the market. Have used Wizcon, FIX Dynamics, Wonderware, Factory Link, Omron CX-Supervisor and Genisis. Give me Citect any day. www.citect.com for a free download for evaluation.

By the way, for an inexpensive SCADA that does most things and works with OPC drivers for everything, Omron CX-Supervisor is really very good. Not a Citect but nowhere near the price. You buy the development package and then buy a runtime each time you use it. When you buy the runtime, your code is totally protected also. Choice of the internal script language or VB.

RE:: AB vs GE Prices

I'll have to rummage through the archives to see if I have anything around still. The machines were brought into the plant, sat out in the weather for at least several months, maybe years. They may have been installed after I left, but if they were, they never made any tires in that plant. They wound up being shipped out to Oklahoma, I believe.

They were pretty heavy on analog I/O, and I think some servo control for good measure.

AB was in two racks, GE may have been in one. CPU price was considerably diferent, I recall.

reards.....casey

AB can be seem expensive when you look at individual items but if developing a complete system there are usually significant discounts involved.

I cant see 10x differential between AB and any brand if you are comparing apples to apples, actually AB may offer an overall less expensive option than other companies depending...

The suggestion of staying with what exists within the company will offer long term savings for the end user...ie familiarity with software and hardware.

What I would do is develop a written specification of hardware and software needed then contact AB, AD, GE, Modicon and other reps for bids/pricing for the project.

The only one that can decide which brand or combo to use is you.

conetting

Can I conetting joystick fx mitsubisbi plc and which series

We have good experiences with Reliance SCADA. Also Citect should be a right choice, but Reliance will be cheaper (ask for price list, they sent it to you).

Holy thread resurrection!

I missed rsdoran