Milwaukee Job

We're hiring a controls person. Here's our AD on Monster:

http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=28647606&AVSDM=2005%2D03%2D29+15%3A25%3A54&Logo=1&cn=gehl's&lid=656&sort=rv&vw=b&cy=US&brd=1,128,1862,1863

You can also contact me directly about it at :

[email protected]
262-251-8572 x176

Gee Greg, if it were only 4 or 5 hours closer to home.

Can you send out some free sample products?

regards.....casey

Why the heck do they need someone with a degree? B****y useless piece of paper quite frankly.

Perhaps a little incorrect. I have a degree in the world of hard knocks. Best way to learn.

I still do not have one but love telling degree types why their systems will not work. They usually insist on implementation their way. "Please instruct me with a piece of paper and then when it does not work I can charge you, at a very high hourly rate, to fix it". Great way to make money quite frankly.

Personally I thought it was a good position with minimal requirements that fit the job description. I wish it was in Alabama.
Useless or not degrees show employers willingness and ability to learn, reliability and more.

Around here they usually want you to have all those requirement plus be a welder and mechanic. The pay scale probably wont be as good either. The base hourly rate here is around 15/16 dollars an hour. I could live with that but the rotating shifts I dont care for.
Examples:
http://jobs.al.com/perl/vaui/Search/top/job/9F200-18B50?pid=alive&matches.page=3

http://jobs.al.com/perl/vaui/Search/top/job/9F200-18F0A?pid=alive&matches.page=7

http://jobs.al.com/perl/vaui/Search/top/job/9F195-07E7?pid=alive&matches.page=8http://jobs.al.com/perl/vaui/Search/top/job/9F200-18F0A?pid=alive&matches.page=7

BobB said:

Why the heck do they need someone with a degree? B****y useless piece of paper quite frankly.

Perhaps a little incorrect. I have a degree in the world of hard knocks. Best way to learn.

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Dang it's the same degree I got. I did not see u in class... Must be a big school... I like the easy “Ron-Beaufort-no-math-shortcut” way !!!

John

I fit the job descp.

Have the degree, almost the experince. Think I will send my resume in, can't hurt can it?

EDUCATION/EXPERIENCE: We are searching for someone who will have at least a 2 year technical degree, preferably in electronics. Ultimately we would prefer someone with a couple years of industry experience in addition to their education, but would be willing to train the correct new graduate.

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Personally I think the requirement is reasonable. It seems to me that the offer may be open to anybody who can demonstrate the required abilities, degree or not.

Bob,

From an employers point of view, a degree shows that the prospect is a finisher. I.E. He/she has the fortitude and tenacity to finish the project & or to learn, to stay organized, and to multi-task. Not knowing the prospects actual work habits, this is a valuable indicator, and usually (but not always) an accurate one. A kid fresh out of collage with a wet BSEE is likely to have a lot of useless junk floating around the foreground of his brain, but that usually gets corrected rather quickly with some experience. Guys, like Bob H (a.k.a. Testsubject), who have experience, then go for the degree are super valuable. Solid practicable work experience + certification of theoretical knowledge is a hard find.

Mike, I am quite happy to have my trade certificate and my "bragging" sheet. I have, in the past, beaten inexperienced theoretical engineers to positions with these two things.

Have sometomes lost out and had to go and fix things that have been mucked up also. Love that. Get a really good hourly rate.

Guys, like Bob H (a.k.a. Testsubject), who have experience, then go for the degree are super valuable. Solid practicable work experience + certification of theoretical knowledge is a hard find.

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Absolutely agree. Whenever I have come across a good engineer it is usually a tradesman who has good experience, particularly in control and servicing (middle of the night and the machine does not work - 30 guys standing around and costing a fortune) related areas, and then gone and done a degree.

They are usually very practical and sensible. I admire those guys and work quite happily with them.

There is a dearth of good electrical tradedsmen in Ozz these days unfortunately. Particularly controls guys. Getting very hard to find and those that are left are nearly all old fellas. Having problems now. Will only get worse.

Bob, I'm sorry you don't uderstand the need for a degree. I'm sure you're quite qualified, degree or not. If you read it carefully, you'd see that it's not a degree that is difficult to come by, only a 2 year school.

I suppose I chose a different path Greg. I selected various subjects at out technical colleges and did those. Did not do any of the useless ones.

For example, the temperature control section of the instrumentation couse has proved to be really usefull over the years. Glad I did that 6 month course, and many others.

Also did marketing and management courses (5 years) but they were not at university but at technical college. I investigated both areas and the technical college courses were very practical. The university courses were bogged down with theoretical clap trap.

All in all I have spent about 9 years, at night in my own time, studying the subjects I wanted to study not a lot of useless garbage. As you can see I have found a lot more than 2 years.

If the person is someone that has a lot of experience and then gets the piece of paper, good on them. I admire those people as they are practical about things and experienced enough to talk good sense. I guess the piece of paper would then be of good use at an interview but I would be looking for the experience side first.

By the way, I have employed many people over the years when I was in management positions and always looked for experience first. Thankfully, only one of the people I employed ever turned out to be a "dudder".

Bob, I can select two types of individuals for the position.


1.) A person with experience and no further education.

2.) A person with experience AND a degree (at least 2 year).

We are fortunate to be in an area where it isn't difficult to find option #2 listed above. Might has well choose it if you can. I will be the first to admit, in this particular field education is NOT a replacement for experience. If you're looking for a doctor or lawyer, yes education is the most important.

Greg

I wonder if there are a lot of jobs out there for controls type? I have an associate's, I got it and went to work and found out real quick I didn't know much. I can honestly say I got my education OJT. After seeing a lot of "youngsters" right out of school,I much prefer working with the "oldsters" who have actually had their hands on equipment. How many "old timers" do we have here? I wonder if you see the same thing I do. Many of our younger techs are good but lack initiative. They will work on anything..if you tell them and walk them through every problem step by step 2 or 3 times or give them written instructions on how to fix certain problems. In my day.....(telling my age), if you saw a problem, be it electronic, electrical, pneumatic, or mechanical you fixed it....we would NEVER say, "that's not my job". Sorry ranting...I am done.

Greg,

I sent you a email.

just_lionel

elevmike said:

Guys, like Bob H (a.k.a. Testsubject), who have experience, then go for the degree are super valuable. Solid practicable work experience + certification of theoretical knowledge is a hard find.

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Mike,

Thanks for the kind words and support. It is a discussion like this that reaffirms that I am doing the right thing.

Bob 0,

Experience is important but it means nothing if you do not have the theory behind it. I am realizing that now. I have learned a lot about system design that OJT just does not teach you. I understand State Diagrams and K- maps now where before I didn't. I could have eventually taught myself but there is something to be said about a structured learning environment.

Bob H.

I've been wondering where you work, Greg.

Did I read that right: 230+ employees, on a "farm"?

That sounds like a pretty huge place! There must be a really large packing/shipping center. Is there actually a farm at this location, or is it more of a distribution center?

AK