Doubtful of I/O

prethip

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Join Date
Jun 2005
Posts
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Hi,
I am planning to implement a small PLC in one of our machines. We have 2 RTD analog inputs, one output to control a relay which controls a single phase 1 HP motor , one output to power an alarm, one output that controls a solenoid(to operate a valve) and we plan on implementing a sensor to stop the motor in case a lid which covers the unit is lifted.

Its a pretty straight forward setup no complicated I/Os. The constraints are we need a ethernet port in the machine to connect to this machine. NO canbus/device link. RS 232 is indeed needed. A touchscreen panel would be nice. Other abilities that we need would be data logging and a real time clock with date functions.

We are looking at Omron CPM2C, Unitronics vision 230/280, Renu Prizm 285/545 and allen bradley micrologix 1200

What would be the best one to go for among these with say a sub 1000$ budget. If possible just the order of preference. Also if you could confirm me that i got the inouts right, i.e if the ones i mentioned are digital/analog. Thanks for the help.

prethip
 
prethip,

I don't think that the Allen-Bradley Micrologix 1200 has a rela-time clock or an Ethernet port. The new Micrologiz 1100 has those, but the last I heard it is not available yet.

None of the PLCs will give you any type of built-in automatic data logging. You can write a program to do that, if you limit your data to two or 3 points and for a short time. This function is usually handled by another program (in addition to the PLC), such as a SCADA package or an HMI software package such as RSView. I don't think you can get that for less than $1000.
 
Just a shoot from the hip answer but, I doubt very seriously if you can get Ethernet Coms,Data logging touchscreen HMI, real-time clock, and analog inputs for anywhere aproaching 1000.00$ using anyone's products.

I am only familiar with AB products and I know you will not get it done for 1000.00$ using AB parts. Especially if you don't already have software.

I think the new ML1100 and a PVplus panelview would meet all your needs, but they will blow the roof off of your budget. As stated above the ML1100 isn't available yet either.
 
You can use a NET-DNI module to get a 1200 on ethernet, and you can buy a real time clock module for it.


I suggetst you look at the AutomationDirect.com DL-06. It has ethernet and RTD modules available, and would meet your budget. The O/I could be an EZTouch, which is also low cost.
 
The constraints are we need a ethernet port in the machine to connect to this machine. NO canbus/device link. RS 232 is indeed needed.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how to interpret your 'ethernet' requirement (above).

Remember that 'ethernet' is a basically an electrical standard. 'Ethernet' doesn't define the data, protocol, or format involved.

Some machines use web servers, others use UDP or TCP to FTP or communicate; any of which are 'ethernet'. Any of those requires specific software to establish and maintain a useful comm link.

Systems integrators are the folks (a number of whom frequent this forum) who make their living figuring out and implementing the necessary hardware/software matches for communications between machines and PLCs.

Without a firm understanding of what 'ethernet' needs to do on your machine - PLC comm link, you might consider bringing in a systems integrator.
 
Thanks folks for the comments. Let me clarify something on the ethernet issue. What we would like to do is a way for our customers to actually view the HMI screen through something like a remote desktop or something and actually be able to look at the screen as if they were standing right next to it. It is ethernet becuase i can access it using an IP address.

We are seriously considering the Prizm 285 by renu electronics and the vision 280 from unitronics. Both of them seem to fit the bill, though unitronics seems to be slightly over the 1000$ limit.

Anyone care to comment on renu electronics. I mean how reliable they are, after support kind of thing. That will be great folks.

Thanks again for your replies.
 
prethip
Why not use a Mitsubishi FX2N PLC and a Mitsubishi E series Touch Screen. The E Series has a built in web server. You could connect with Ethernet and view the panels. The cost will not fit your $1000.00 price range, but it will have everything you need.

swimmy67
 
Prethip,

Much of what you will need will require some form of modular I/O controller. Would you consider another option?

Based on the limited number of digital I/O and the RTD inputs you would require, we offer a unit called the Smart-PAK PLUS. A two board embedded PLC with two serial ports.

Information can be viewed at www.entertron.com/smart-pak.htm

The drawback is that it doesn't offer an ethernet port, however the cost of serial to ethernet devices have really come down in price. One source would be B&B Electronics. Here are two links to their ethernet section.

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=2&TrailType=Sub&Trail=1

http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=DE-211

You can get a real time clock in the PLC or in the Touch screen, should you go with one.

Here is a comparison we did on various manufacturer's touch screens - www.entertron.com/touchcompare.htm The touch screen we support is Hitech.

With just about any system you go with, you will probably have to purchase programming sofware. With ours you won't.

With regards to the all in one packages compared to a separate PLC and touch screen...there will be advantages and disadvantages to both. Much will depend on your preference and circumstances as to what might be the best solution for you.

Excluding the Ethernet, the controller and touch screen, would be just under $1000 to start. (monochrome touch screen) Color adds $200.00

Just curious, but in reviewing Renu's web site...it appears that the Prizm 285 is a touch screen only...what were you considering for the I/O?

And before anyone gets up in arms about this post being considered advertising, it is strictly in response to a post, providing another viable solution that the poster may not have been aware of. And to keep everything on the up and up, I am employed by Entertron. However, I am not employeed by B&B electronics or Hitech America.
 
Just my two cents worth on Mr Luft and the way he walks the tightrope on business ethics and participating on this site.

1. He does not have to participate
2. IF he does he is entitled to his own opinion. Everyone else gives their opinion on their favored products which is often requested by the way.
3. He is open and honest that he is an employee of (whoever that outfit is)
4. He generally does not make much mention of his own product
5. When he does he seeem to mention it but not run down competetor

I think he is doing just fine and want him to continue what he is doing EXACTLY no more no less.

Dan Bentler

Stephen Luft said:
Prethip,

Much of what you will need will require some form of modular I/O controller. Would you consider another option?

Based on the limited number of digital I/O and the RTD inputs you would require, we offer a unit called the Smart-PAK PLUS. A two board embedded PLC with two serial ports.

Information can be viewed at www.entertron.com/smart-pak.htm

The drawback is that it doesn't offer an ethernet port, however the cost of serial to ethernet devices have really come down in price. One source would be B&B Electronics. Here are two links to their ethernet section.

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=2&TrailType=Sub&Trail=1

http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=DE-211

You can get a real time clock in the PLC or in the Touch screen, should you go with one.

Here is a comparison we did on various manufacturer's touch screens - www.entertron.com/touchcompare.htm The touch screen we support is Hitech.

With just about any system you go with, you will probably have to purchase programming sofware. With ours you won't.

With regards to the all in one packages compared to a separate PLC and touch screen...there will be advantages and disadvantages to both. Much will depend on your preference and circumstances as to what might be the best solution for you.

Excluding the Ethernet, the controller and touch screen, would be just under $1000 to start. (monochrome touch screen) Color adds $200.00

Just curious, but in reviewing Renu's web site...it appears that the Prizm 285 is a touch screen only...what were you considering for the I/O?

And before anyone gets up in arms about this post being considered advertising, it is strictly in response to a post, providing another viable solution that the poster may not have been aware of. And to keep everything on the up and up, I am employed by Entertron. However, I am not employeed by B&B electronics or Hitech America.
Click to expand...
 
The ML1100 should be available by now.
It seems to fit your requirements pretty well.
It has Ethernet.
It has onboard datalogging capabilities.
It has an onboard webserver. So in theory you could make a simple HMI that could be viewed remotely with any web browser. I havent actually worked with the ML1100, so I cannot say how complex the web pages can be.
 
I believe AB is releasing a Micrologix 12xx in the FALL (sometime soon) that has Ethernet built in, and analog/Digital I/O. I heard it should retail for under 1k CAD.
Hold off, and talk to your AB supplier/distributer. You can get the software for a decent price, and you will have support that you can count on.
In my opinion, and I must stress this is MY OPINION, I would stick to the larger more predominant OEMs. Better repairs, support and services.
 
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