Scale Operation "Semi" Automation ???

JPCompounds

Member
Join Date
Aug 2004
Posts
37
Our business is a batch process where compounds are weighed up by hand and mixed in an internal mixers. The raw materials, weights, loading etc are all very critical to making good quality products.

We run two independent lines but 1 line is more automated than the other and runs very smooth. We currently only run 2 compounds 5 days a week for 2 shifts.

The other line is more problematic. Many more compounds 10-15, each with unique raw ingredients. We have a total of around 35-40 unique materials. This doesn't lend itself to an automated "pre"weigh system as one could imagine.

So we rely heavily on labor to hand weigh each of our batches. This can be difficult as sometimes wrong materials may be weighed or even left out.

We are looking for a system to automate the scale function but not eliminate the labor. If there is a system that can step through each formulation and check/scale each ingredient before moving forward.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I would see this as a type of receipe but in manual. Have a PC with the stored receipes. Let the operator choose the final product. The PC should bring up the ingredients one at a time. Hopefully the source container could have some sort of bar code for verification. After verification the measured product is weighed on a scale attached to the PC. When that is correct the PC gives permission to add that product to the mix and then continues on to the next ingredient. This is obviously a barebones outline but is this something like you are looking for?
 
JP,

This sounds like a good application of batch software with an interface to your inventory system. Along with making sure the correct ingredients are used, it can also control the different phases of your equipment, such as heating, cooling, mixing, etc. of your mixer, if available. I suggest consulting an integrator who has experience with batching software, i.e. Wonderware's InBatch, or Intellution's iBatch, just to name a couple. I'm not sure of your budget for this, but this may be an expensive solution for you, although it will give you better control and more flexibility.

HTH,
Jeff
 
I'd betchya testsubject knows more about this, but I would imagine that it would be not too diffucult to have a PLC do this. There was a thread some time ago where someone was making an automated bar (drink mixer). I think it was figured that he could have thousands of drink receipes stored on a small PLC. You didnt mention if the ingredents were liquid, or dry, but either way you could fully automate the mixing process. If the ingredents were in hoppers, then each hopper would dump a predetermined amount (based on the recepie) into a bin that would reside on a scale (if the measure was by weight). The bin would be moved to the next hopper and the second ingredent would be dumped etc... then the bin would be dumped into the mixer to get mixed for a predetermined time, then dumped into the packaging.

If your talking about 15 recipies with a total of posably 40 ingreedents, I'd say that something like a DL-06 & an EZ Touch could handle the project.

I'm pretty sure that this is what "testsubject" does. I once had a link to his website but lost it when I went to XP. Hopefully he'll chime in.
 
rsdoran said:
I could fully automate it, doubt a DL06 would do it though...BTDT
I disagree (with all due respect).

Memory:

If he has 15 recipes & a possibility of 40 ingredients each, then to store all the possible values of all recipes would require a max of 1200 Double words. The DL-06 has the capability to store 3744 double words (user memory).

I/O:

Lets say he is using one scale to measure all ingredients, that might be 1 analog input module.

Lets say that his ingredients are stored in hoppers with some type of valve. that would require 40 outputs. (16 on the base & 2 16pt option modules = 48).

That leaves 20 base inputs + maybe another 16 for the last option module for whatever (feedback from limits maybe).

If more I/0 is required it could be done by networking to a "slave DL-06".
Presumably the system would include a touchscreen for selecting various pre-programmed recipes.

There's scant info about specifics here, but I would 1st look at the DL-06 before going to a more expensive PLC.

 
OK the DL06 can use 40 scales? You can not fully automate using one scale...the residue alone would corrupt the mix therefore you need 40 scales and feeders....BTDT.

This assumes its FULLY automated, no manual labor involved.

IF the process is food or pharmaceutical then the feeders etc have to be stainless steel. The scales etc have to be calibrated on a schedule etc etc etc.

As I said...BTDT.

I will back up a little, its possible to use less feeders/scales depending on batch and setup..I did a few lines that did Ipecac, mineral oil etc etc...after each batch the system was cleaned, just needed 4 or 5 feeders per batch.
 
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been there done that.
I dont talk about many of the things I have done because I was in business and the customer(s) had me sign a no-disclosure agreement...ie can not discuss or talk about the specifics (formulas etc) of their application, albeit I have done a good bit of work with batch processes mainly in the pharmaceutical and food industry...I hate the food industry....either very hot or freezing cold.
 
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Ok, I'm thinking ONE scale. Like I said I don’t know the current configuration but if I were doing it from scratch I'd do it like this:

One scale with a separate bin or mixer for each recipe. The bin would go on the scale. If you have 15 bins (one for each recipe compound) and want a scale for each, the scale input could be switched from one scale to another, thus ONE scale input. The ingredients would be measured by adding the weight values for the ingredients in the bin to obtain a target value for the next ingredient etc.

Now grant it, this process wont be a fast as it would be with 40 scale inputs, but it would be a lot faster then doing it by hand...From the sound of the orig post, I got the idea that he was'nt looking for a "super system" $$$$$.
 
Like I said it depends on the product, a few scales could work but automated one scale couldnt because the product would have to be weighed while fed into the mixer. One scale would dilute the mixture if not cleaned between feeds....just depends.

This is an area I have dealt with but we all know I aint the sharpest knife in this drawer.
 
I think we need a little more info.

If some of the ingredients are liquid, one could use a flow meter and totalize the ingredients.

My company recently did a batching system for a cracker manufacturer. It was done in RSView along with a PLC5 and a SLC. The dry ingredients where weighed and then blown over onto another scale. We would then add water, oil, etc. through flow meters. This system prompted the operator each step of the way. There where certain steps where he would have to add hand-adds. Once he confimed his operation, the system would move on the next step.

We are looking for a system to automate the scale function but not eliminate the labor. If there is a system that can step through each formulation and check/scale each ingredient before moving forward.

This can be done fairly simple with the PC reading the scale values over RS232 and then prompting the operator for each step. The formulas could be stored in a database. The only downfall is not knowing if the operator weighed the right ingredient.


Mark,
esystemsusa.com
 
The only downfall is not knowing if the operator weighed the right ingredient.

Mark that could be part of the process too...ie add the proper amount to scale, if not within range it doesnt accept and move to next step.
 
A carousel hopper system that only gives the operator access to one material at a time could help with the material control...
 

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