Wonderware Or RSView

What are the Pro's and Con's of Each?

I've done three projects in Europe, South America and SE Asia with RSView SE 3.10 (I assue you mean this, and not RSView32) and I have found it a product with much potential but feet of clay.

PROS
1. Graphics are quite nice, many good animation effects and trend/alarm objects.

2. You can bring graphics into SE from the ME version (but not vice versa)

3. Reasonable VBA integration (although let down by random behaviour if routines are invoked at screen loading). This makes things like ODBC connections to databases relatively simple.

4. Architecture is quite scalable for large plants

5. Plenty of utility objects present and correct (recipe, alarms, trends, data logs, key shortcuts, example graphics)


CONS
1. About as stable as a serial killer (all three sites have problems with having to frequently reboot the SCADA server after a few weeks

2. Tons and tons of documented and undocumented bugs! This is the worst thing about the software, not being confident the damn thing is going to work. Do a search on RSViewSE in the Rockwell knowledgebase and see for yourself!

3. Quite expensive compared to some other solutions, especially when you factor in a server operating system for one of your PCs and setting up correctly.

4. Licencing arrangements are a little baroque - for example, try finding out why you should use RSLinx Enterprise and not Gateway etc.

5. Online support people are generally of little help solving difficult problems (i.e. anything not already documented in the knowledgebase). Of course, this may depend on what part of the world you are based in, since I hear the support in America is OK.

In summary, the stability of this product is poor enough that I would be cautious using it in any plant with dangerous processes controlled by the user via the SCADA.

Rockwell assure me these problems will be fixed in version 4. That said, RSLogix5000 is up to version 15, so I consider their words as air at slightly above room temperature

Umm.. No, pretty sure he was talking about Wonderware(INTOUCH) and Rockwell(RSView32)... Two different SCADA packages for computer use...

We used Wonderware here at our plant for many years without any problems, and we had RSView machines running right next to them. We have since put all of our HMI's onto RSView, but only because the decision was made to standardize on one or the other, not because of any issues with either package.

"Umm.. No, pretty sure he was talking about Wonderware(INTOUCH) and Rockwell(RSView32)... Two different SCADA packages for computer use...
We used Wonderware here at our plant for many years without any problems, and we had RSView machines running right next to them. We have since put all of our HMI's onto RSView, but only because the decision was made to standardize on one or the other, not because of any issues with either package."

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Last time I checked, RSView SE was a PC-based SCADA, so not sure what your point is there! RSView SE is the latest SCADA package released by Rockwell, although it's less than a year or two old so you may not have come across it yet - check it out at http://www.rockwellsoftware.com/rsviewse/. I am using RSView32 for my current project in Brazil, and it's pretty primitive compared to SE (no multistate indicators, for example) but it is cheaper and simpler. Which of the two you'd use depends on the application, so if the OP cares to elaborate....

Ahh.. Good point...

I've used both extensively, and the truth is that while I prefer InTouch, because it's editor is much easier to deal with, and analog/string inputs work 100 times better than in RSView(anything), I won't use InTouch anymore unless I am completely forced to due to the incredibly short-sighted licensing model, and the total lack of responsive support.

If Rockwell changes their licensing model, I'll probably have to consider switching away from them too.

RSView(anything) is far superior also just because of the VBA interface. As plant networks and information publishing/sharing become more widespread, it's great to have the ability to use VBA to integrate directly into Office applications, or a SQL server.

If you take a step back and look at where the development is occuring, I prefer the WonderWare ArchestrA model. Tightly integrated with the os, nice galaxy, etc. Historizing (to InSql) is done with a check box and is push vs pull.

I've used both, and prefer WonderWare and respect their vision and progress towards the future.

I personally haven't used Wonderware for over 2 years, I use RSView in many different forms almost daily, so my opinion is squarely biased towards a system that I've come to terms with.

It's far from perfect but it does the job, sometimes better than I could hope, sometimes it's like dragging your *** through glass to get to a cold beer (there's a reward but some suffering to go through to get there).

I recently saw a sneak preview (the Rockwell guy got in trouble for it too ) the beginnings of the next generation of RSview products, and I must admit I was surprised. The improvements aren't that great, but apparently they're working on more 'error control' so hopefully it'll become a more user friendly system after all.

InTouch (Stand alone not with the Application Server) -
Pros -
1) I think that its proprietary scripting is faster/lower overhead than RSView VBA.
2) Good looking graphics
3) You can find quite a few system integrators with experience with the product.
4) Many "add-on" packages from Wonderware that work well with it.

Cons -
1) My number one complaint (and this goes for all the new fancy Application Server .NET stuff too). THERE IS NO SCRIPT DEBUGGING/SINGLE STEPPING. I am sorry, but there is no excuse to this.
2) This applies to InTouch by itself only (the application server corrects these deficiencies). The tag database stinks. They do not have a good metaphore for grouping/editing tags. Most other SCADA/HMI packages use tag folders with a spread sheet type interface that you can EASILY edit. InTouch has super tags that are a pain in the rear.
3) No easy way to edit grouped graphics. This is a little easier with the new smart symbols, but you have to explode/regroup to edit where most other packages let you double click to edit a group, but it will maintain as a group when you are done.
4) Interfacing with databases stinks. SQL manager feels ancient. This is better with the Application Server where you have access to the .NET CLR, but standalone InTouch is BAD.

Darren

MartB said:

I recently saw a sneak preview (the Rockwell guy got in trouble for it too ) the beginnings of the next generation of RSview products, and I must admit I was surprised. The improvements aren't that great, but apparently they're working on more 'error control' so hopefully it'll become a more user friendly system after all.

Click to expand...

I talked to the Australian RSView SE product manager at an automation fair in Sydney the other day and he said exactly the same thing. Apparently, a lot of programmers got fired over the instability and flaws in the early editions of the product (as early adopters, we took several baths over undocumented bugs so this was music to my ears). Hence, the project focus is now on stability and reliability, which are far and away the worst problem with this product nowadays, and much less on intoducing new features. RSView SE V4 will solve everything of course.... but with RS's newfound devotion to finishing the job properly I am hoping for great things.

@Dash: I have actually found the VBA substructure in SE quite low overhead. For example, I have two SE applications that use a separate Access database as part of the recipe handling system, and I've never had troubles with loading time etc. It's very easy to write code to interface to a standard database as well.

Mind you, I am currently trying to write some very simple routines in RSView32 to load combination boxes and suchlike, and it is proving a pain in the arse. SE has better VBA integration than RSView32

Hi, I have used both & agree with the others, there are good & bad points for both.

If you are using AB PLC's then RSView + RSLinx is great, Database handling is good (note the self cleaning it does if you do not need to store data for long periods), also purchasing Floating Clients (view ones are only £500-600), these can be installed on all computers on the site & allow a number of people to "View" them at any time (upto the number of licences you purchase), I have a 32K system up & running on a RAD server with 3 SLC505's a Compact Logix5000, a Micrologix1500 + a patch though from a Mitsi FX2N via a Beijers E700 HMI using Dual Protocol,7 floating View licences + 12 powermonitors (ABpower), logging data to DBaseIV, Access & SQL, thats a lot of DB's & have never had a problem.
I last used Intouch about 4 years ago, although pretty good (I liked the 'C' type script) but did have a number of problems requiring a re-boot now & again.
Hope this helps.

Binaural said:

Online support people are generally of little help solving difficult problems (i.e. anything not already documented in the knowledgebase). Of course, this may depend on what part of the world you are based in, since I hear the support in America is OK.

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From a UK point of view...........

Support from the UK is pretty poor although they will defend that, the UK Distributor is as much use as a chocolate teapot!

If i need AB support i phone the states, its quicker, easier and saves days of wasted time!

But i may just have been speaking to the wrong chaps

504bloke said:

From a UK point of view...........

Support from the UK is pretty poor although they will defend that, the UK Distributor is as much use as a chocolate teapot!

If i need AB support i phone the states, its quicker, easier and saves days of wasted time!

But i may just have been speaking to the wrong chaps

Click to expand...

I always found this to be true, when I was working in the UK, I would pray that I didn't need to call them.

MartB said:

I always found this to be true, when I was working in the UK, I would pray that I didn't need to call them.

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Been on the phone to them for 3 days now regarding a simple SDN upgrade, the distributor is worse than useless.

I am waiting an email from tech support in the US to give me the answer, which when i give this to the uk chaps they will say "Oh really? Are you sure!"

Sometimes i wished i lived nearer MK so i could go door knocking and head bashing!

504bloke said:

Been on the phone to them for 3 days now regarding a simple SDN upgrade, the distributor is worse than useless.

I am waiting an email from tech support in the US to give me the answer, which when i give this to the uk chaps they will say "Oh really? Are you sure!"

Sometimes i wished i lived nearer MK so i could go door knocking and head bashing!

Click to expand...

Well, glad to know it's not just Australia and SE asia that get less than stellar support (although I am surprised that Rockwell don't try harder given the size of the automation industry in the UK and Europe).

One thing I will credit Rockwell Support for is their knowledgebase, which is pretty good (even if the search engine is naff). Before I start a new project on RSView ME or SE I always search the knowledgebase and get the latest bug fixes and workarounds. Done religiously, this significantly reduces the number of baffling bugs discovered during the development process