Career advise

Hi all. I have a small dilemna, but a good one to have. First my background. I went to tech school for Electro-Mech Technology. First I was a union electrician in a battery making plant. Then moved to a Plant Engineering Systems Tech(glorified electrical maintenance title) at a big plant where I've gotten very familiar with all PLCs and HMI's from AB, learned a little IFIX and seen some siemens and TI PLC's and software. My job has been keeping lines running and doing various minor program and process changes. I have been out of trade school for 7 years. Last year I started pursueing a BSEE degree. I had an interview for a company looking for a Instrumentation and controls engineer, typical projects last 12 to 14 weeks in the shop and about 2 weeks startup at the buyers location. I am assuming that some of you are engineers and have traveled a somewhat similar path. Because of my lack of formal Engineering schooling and lack of major project management, this potential employer is only offering 37K salaried to start. In my current job, I will make just a hair over 45K. This potential employer said in the interview that there will be a 6 month assessment to kind of "see where I'm at and a raise, perhaps sizeable if my talents and knowledge were underestimated."

Knowing all this, I would like some input from those of you who may have traveled this kind of path.

#1, Exactly how much diffent is this type of job. To be exact, is it realistic to expect to recoup a majority of an 8K paycut after a 6 month period?

#2. This employer stressed that while they would encourage me to finish my degree, they will neither require it, nor reimburse for it. Basically, I will learn what I need to know from them on the job. Is the pay any or much better after obtaining the BSEE and do those of you with significant engineering experience find yourselves losing jobs to those with some less experience because of the formal degree?

#3. After a fair, say 5 year period, what kind of money would you expect to make without obtaining the BSEE?

These are all questions I've pondered while trying to make the decision to stay where I'm at and finish the degree or bite at this potential opportunity. Thanks to all who provide any input.

Russ

Just my experience, but if you're not getting paid what you want up front, you're not going to get it later.I personally would not reccomend quitting your current job for less. I wouldn't leave for equal dollars, I'd only leave if I'm getting more, or the project I'm working on is running up.

JMO, finish the BSEE. Small price to pay to pick up the position and money that it will get you.

Russ, I'll give you my take from an EE. I am a degreed EE from the late 80's and currently work for a pretty big global company. $37K doesn't seem out of line for an EE with little or no experience (it doesn't sound like you though). Our maintenance techs make around $62K base and plenty of OT (at 1.5X). There is no travel. Many of the techs make more than I do but I'm not saying that's bad.

I don't want to travel nor job shop, I like the stability (as much as possible) of a larger company. There are several EEs I know that work for small integrators that make way more than I do and there are a few that are always looking for work just to make the truck payment. I am very involved with the programming and running of our systems and also the project management side (my current budget exceeds $2MM). I have seen a few cases where someone young and without the degree (just an ASEET - 2 yr tech degree) came in and displaced an older degreed EE. I'm sure there are many companies that would easily replace a BSEE with someone without the same degree to save money.

I would suggest that you do what you think makes you happy. Not everyone is willing to turn wrenches, replace belts, and program on a daily basis. Even though I do some of that (we are non-union), I like the time I take to correctly design a system or complete an entire project (drawings, manuals, spare parts, programming, etc). Getting an EE degree just to make more money (or not getting one to make more money) should not be, in my opinion, the driving factor. You sound like you've seen both sides of this fence. This is your only life, happiness does count.

As for the company, if they don't want you to get a degree (by helping pay for it or compensating you for it), then they probably don't want to pay well either. Most people (and companies) would encourage someone to get a formal education. If they are shooting low and promising better, then it sounds like they are wanting you to take some of their risk in this company (we don't have the incoming money now but if you do good, then it will be better later).

Lastly, sorry for being so long winded and philisophical (??). I am proud of the fact I went to an engineering school and I would encourage anyone who wants to get a degree to get one. I also hold NOTHING against anyone who doesn't get the degree. I have learned a lot from people who went to the school of hard knocks - we all go there from time to time. You should ask yourself what you want to do to make you happy and then follow that path.

Hey Russ, whats the potential for advancement at your current employment?. The 37k sounds a bit low for that type of work, that rates more like a base electrician, not an instro tech.
From my experience, you only do your degree for your own personal satisfaction, I have had 20 years in the field, life was a lot easier when I was told what to do by someone else, now all I do is think for other people. No one ever comes to me with solutions, only their problems.....

...The more you learn the more you realise you don't know.

Lance

I predict that company would no longer employ you after 6 months.

I also do not have a BS. I am an ex Navy ET. The head of my company's engineering department does not have a BS. I have been looking at getting my BS because the parent company is enamored with pieces of paper.

Example, I have been working with motion control since 1970, I taught electronics for 2 years in the Navy. I have been involved with traning customers on drives and controls ever since. I am not qualified to teach at the parent company because I do not have a BS. Some kid, with less years on mother earth than I have doing the job is qualified to teach because he has a BS. I actually met this kid when I took a class. I will say he proved to be an excellent instructor.

I did a salary survey and your 45K is mid stream and 55k is tops. Your background is similar to mine. I am more field/shop repair and start up than plant maintenance. My job right now is when guy's like your self hit the brick wall, you call me to come help. I am not the EXPERT in any one manufacturers' products, but am versed with all of them.

I say, finish getting your degree if that is what you want to do. Then look around for a job showing more $$$$. I have watched many guys jump at jobs like the one you are contemplating and 6 to 8 months later they are unemployed, not collecting more $$. If you are happy with you current job, long term you may not want to move just for the $$. I have seen guys jump to collect the $$$ but the benefits and working conditions made the NEW job not such a good deal. I routinely am offered plant jobs but I like what I do and the company I do it with.

Cliff note:

Keep the total package in mind, not just the $$$ or promise of $$$.
Be happy with what ever you are doing and strive to always improve your self.

From my experence, if they arn't willing to pay you what you are worth to get you to leave your present job they will never pay you what you are worth. The old saying is true, "Don't pay them what they are worth...just pay them enough that they don't quit."

I also agree.

In downstate IL, there are some EE jobs in the 50's and 60's, but most are in the 40's and some in the 30's.

Some of the calls I get from other midwest states aren't much better.

Sure, there are a lot of jobs out there in the 60's, 70's, 80's. They don't seem to get filled. and when they do, the person often is hired on personality more then education and experience.

With this one, I'd say stay put.

just my $0.03 before taxes.

regards.....casey

I pretty much agree with everyone else.

Firstly an 8K drop is going to hurt your wallet, no matter what.
Secondly, ask yourself, "am I worth 45K?" You'll find yourself answering "and then some" typically.
It is HIGHLy unlikely that you can expect any more than a 5% raise, which still wouldn't match your current salary.
I employ around 2 - 3 people a year and usually at interview I will ask what they are earning in their present/last position, and then I'll ask how much would it take to make you leave?
If I want to be really nasty I'll ask what they think 'this' job should pay?
I've never employed anyone who said they'd be happy with less than their current salary (there's been a couple that have). The reasons I wouldn't are various but basically I want someone who is confident about what they are doing and 'values' themselves as much as their job.

My advice, stay where you are. It doesn't matter where in the world you are there's always work to be found.

Anyway, that's my soapbox speach for the day.

Be lucky!

...
"Our maintenance techs make around $62K base and plenty of OT (at 1.5X)."...

Holy Christmas!
Where do I send a resume???

Get the degree!!!!!!!!! I wouldn`t mind the
THE TITLE, but i sure would hate the pay cut.

2 cents

I'd say go get the degree...

I'm very much a youngin (28) and had the opportunity to work part time in my current job while getting my BSEE. I'm the only EE in the company and when I was originally hired (at 20 with one year of school finished) my boss's exact words were "I need an EE, but I can't afford one yet; I'll pay you more than you make now, but I may not be able to pay you what you deserve when you graduate." Well by the time I finally graduated I'd figured out that having fun at work is just as important as making money at work and my boss made me an offer that made me happy to stay.

My graduating class was 100% hired (2002) before graduation and the base pay range for all of us was $40k to about $75k (I wasn't the bottom, but I was close). Of the guys I still talk to I'm at the bottom of the heap now on base pay, but I made more than the rest of them last year (small company bonuses can be very generous during the good years).

One more vote for finishing the school and get your BS. The pay sounds a bit low but not out of line but their lack of support for your schooling speaks volume. A BS will also open a lot of doors, beside just engineering. You never know a few years down the road that you might want to do something else or go into management. I run into bright electicans all the time who can't advance on because the lack of a college degree.

"typical projects last 12 to 14 weeks in the shop and about 2 weeks startup at the buyers location.

If it wasn't for the unpredictable two weeks (or more) away, I'd say...

Make like a BIG Green Frog and jump at it!

There's something really great about OJT (On the Job Training) and there is something really, really great about learning the real science behind the whatever while you are experiencing the practical aspects of the whatever!

However, wouldn't it be just your luck to have a two week start-up right during Mid-Terms, or Finals. Actually, missing two, or more, weeks of any of the tougher classes can be pretty damned devastating... there are some pretty tough courses in BSEE, especially on the math-side (higher level calculus-based stuff). And of course it would be a damned shame to miss two, or more, weeks of a fun class. Not to mention that some instructors/institutions are not so lenient when it comes to absence or missing tests.

If you are like I am, they are ALL fun classes! Some are more fun than others, but, for me, they all came down on the fun side. I didn't miss a single day of school! It was that much fun for me! I went to school, sick or not, hung-over or not, it was that much fun!

Certainly, there are the "Required" courses. If any of the "required" courses don't make your innards feel all a-twitter with excitement... well, maybe you are working your way down the wrong path.

With respect to "Electives", there is quite a bit of flexibility when it comes to the Electives. Be careful to choose Electives that will help you, not only as a professional, but also as a person (Psy., Soc., and maybe a little Art Appreciation). A Language (something other than English) wouldn't hurt (I consider English, and the associated classes as required). I took Latin... yeah, they call it a dead language... but, if you believe so, then you have no idea how much of current English, and current versions of many other languages, are directly derived from Latin. Not to mention that it provides the basic structure of communication through language. When you see a referrence to something being of, or from, a "Romance Language"... it has nothing to do with "Love"... it has to do with something that was derived from the language that comes from "Rome". Most Western languages are "Romance" languages... that is, derived from the Roman Language... LATIN. (I gotta say, of all of my fun courses, this was the hardest.)

And don't forget to take History, for God's sake, take History... American History and World History! And keep watching the History Channel!

When I went to school Technical Writing was not required for BSEE. I hope that has since changed. I would definitely classify that class as "REQUIRED"! The same goes for the Philosophy classes pertaining to Logic and Logical Analysis. Those classes are directed at the human perception of logical reality. Now, even though those classes are not directed at mechanical/machine perception of logic, you will find, if you apply that particular aspect of logic (human logic) to machine logic, you will have more perfect machines!

However, having done so, this does not necessarily mean that your process design will indeed be perfect.

Again, however, if you do so, your design will most certainly be much more perfect than you could possibly hope to attain through the knowledge obtained at one of those goofy PLC Programming Seminars.

After all, the whole concept behind Automation is to emulate human thought.

So... stay where you are... go to school... and get ready for the best ride in your life!

Terry Woods said:

Certainly, there are the "Required" courses. If any of the "required" courses don't make your innards feel all a-twitter with excitement... well, maybe you are working your way down the wrong path.

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Are the "required courses" what compomises the "BS" part of the degree? LOL

When I am giving a class, I tell them I have most of the electronics but did not take the BS courses, yet.

Terry Woods said:

And don't forget to take History, for God's sake, take History... American History and World History! And keep watching the History Channel!

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Yeah or you will be doomed to repeat it.

Encore presentations at 11.