Need advice TI560T and TI505

My company has been asked to bid on a job that has redundant TI560T’s with TI505 remote racks connected with Profibus. Nobody at my company has any experience with TI hardware or TiSoft software. And the company has suggested that they prefer we use Siemens S7 controllers.

My question is what do you Siemens experts suggest we use for the hardware and software for this project.

Siemens has been pushing the upgrade to Step 7, and re-using the TI I/O via profibus, since you already have the profibus RBC's, the cost will be reduced. I do not have any experience with S7 controllers , so can't give you any advice.

BTW
AB has racks, TI has bases, so a RBC is a remote base controller.

I'v e had a little experience with the Siemens S7 and S5 PLCs, I've found that the Step 7 software is rather user hostile, but that's just my opinion. There is a piece of software called 505 Workshop that's Windows based and works with the 5X5 processors including the 560T, I've never had a chance to use it being saddled with TISoft v2.0, and it doesn't look like we'll be upgrading any time soon.

Ken Moore said:

Siemens has been pushing the upgrade to Step 7, and re-using the TI I/O via profibus, since you already have the profibus RBC's, the cost will be reduced. I do not have any experience with S7 controllers , so can't give you any advice.

BTW
AB has racks, TI has bases, so a RBC is a remote base controller.

Click to expand...

We are planning on reusing the TI505 remote bases and just replacing the redundant TI560T's.
So do the TI505's have separate code running in them as well? Or are they really just like an AB remote rack?

tmechanic said:

I'v e had a little experience with the Siemens S7 and S5 PLCs, I've found that the Step 7 software is rather user hostile, but that's just my opinion. There is a piece of software called 505 Workshop that's Windows based and works with the 5X5 processors including the 560T, I've never had a chance to use it being saddled with TISoft v2.0, and it doesn't look like we'll be upgrading any time soon.

Click to expand...

I have been checking out the Siemens website. And I was wondering if the Step 7 software has a utility to import a TiSoft ver 7.1 program?

TI5x5 and TiSoft are about 42 times easyer to work with / use than Siemens S7 & Step 7.

The TI-560's with remote bases are similar to the older (really old) Allen-Bradley PLC's.
There isn't any I/O in the 560 chassis, the only thing that might reside in the chassis besides the CPU is a Loop/SFPG CPU (565), hot back up board, memory expansion boards, and Remote Channel Controllers. All the I/O is remote. The RBC's do not run any type of logic, they are a means of transferring data from the I/O modules to the processor, in your case via Profibus, older systems use either RS485 or Coax cable, depending on age.

In the Step 7 upgrade demo I saw, some of the original ladder was running, but it was pretty simple stuff. I doubt the loops and SFPGM' will port over very well.

The client's desire to go with the S7 is no doubt driven by Siemens maturing of the 505 line.

If you want to be profitable on this project, and not have to do a lot of redesign, go with a TI545 or TI555 CPU replacement for the 560's, that way you can copy the code directly from the old processors to the new, and use Tisoft or Softshop. Siemens still sells these, although you wouldn't now it to talk to them.

FYI, Control Technologies offers replacement hardware for all 505 products and will have their own processors out the beginning of 2006, so there is support and hardware going to be available past the Siemens maturity date.

Hope that is helpful.

FasTrak SoftWorks, Inc. makes the 505 WorkShop software. www.fast-soft.com It is the Windows replacement for TISOFT. It fully supports all existing TISOFT files, and supports all TI hardware. The features and troubleshooting capabilities in 505 WorkShop will make your life easier than doing this project in TISOFT. Feel free to contact me for further information.
Jim
262.238.8088
[email protected]

Siemens does still support the TI545/555 line but as of the end of 2005 it is considered a spare part item only, i.e hard to get and expensive. In the last couple of years the cost of the 555 processor has almost doubled. Control Technologies PLC is due out next year and I am working on getting a beta version to test. Several years ago when they had trouble with the firmware in their 2572 Ethernet module, I tested the revised firmware for them and hope to do the same on the PLC's. From what I know so far it should be a nice unit. More memory, faster, added functionality and utilizes a memory card instead of a battery.

RC,
I believe the TI545/555 is still supported by Siemens, but they have given a time limit on how much longer you will be able to purchase hardware. The Siemens rep is definitely going to try selling you S7, because Siemens is really pushing their distributors to do so. As Radar mentioned, CTI offers replacement for most all TI545/555 hardware and used hardware can be found through PLCCenter and some others. There is a very loyal TI545/555 customer base that is not going away quickly. Please feel free to call me to discuss further.
[email protected] - 262.238.8088

R_C

The 560/565 istelf has certainly been discontinued for many years. Your client has been living on borrowed time already. I believe Siemens announced earlier this year that the 505-range as a whole (inc. 545 & 555 CPUs and I/O) has now entered the phase-out stage. When this will finally become totally unavailable is anybody's guess, but in the UK Siemens say their support, spares and repairs policy for PLCs is 10 years following discontinuation.
Let's face it, the 505-range is nothing new: it must be 20 years old. I'm not convinced about some of the suggestions here of changing from an obsolete system to a soon-to-be-obsolete system and calling it an upgrade. If the end-client wants to go S7 I would say you have to listen to them.

And don't tell me. They've said "We don't want any new features. Just make it work the same as the old system and we'll be happy." I bet this is the same conversation that the early car salesmen had with their customers who were used to horses and buggies. "Where do the reins go? And why do I need to turn this starting handle? And why can't it find it's own way home if I leave it in town?" You wouldn't try to make a car work the way a horse did, and I don't think you should make an S7 work the way a 560 did (or any other pair of PLCs you mention). You need to discuss the new things they can get by expanding in to and accepting the S7 world, rather than just doing a minimal least-change replacement. Of course, the real problem comes when the person with the task of selling this change to the client doesn't know 560 or S7 (oh, sorry, that's you, isn't it?)

regards

Ken.

Yes, as you have read, it is in the process of being phased out. I believe they gave it the typical 10 year support window, however with CTI making a complete replacement line, I doubt Siemens will hang on that long, TI products have always been a nuisance to them.

CTI also provides 505 series ethernet modules that allow for ways of providing redundancy that was very tedious previously.

As Jim mentioned there is a very large customer base that does not want to be forced to migrate to S7 just because Siemens is headed that way, thus CTI has made a business of providing the complete line with Modbus and Ethernet modules as well and is attempting to capture this market.

The availability for hardware and support will be here for quite sometime, so that should not be the deciding factor in whether you stay with a 505 processor or go with S7. The 545/555 processors are very easy to use, compared to most everything out there, so for your specific circumstances, I would again recommend this approach.
If you would like to discuss outside of this forum...
[email protected] or 941.907.8815

505 Workshop allows you to import TiSoft Programs and converts them over to 505...

Step-7 Does indeed come with a utility to "Convert" TI505 series programs up to S7 PLC's.

Of course, you will never again be able to maintain that code, as it comes out HORRIBLE.

You would be much better just to manually generate the logic over in S7 than use their conversion utility. Note that Step-7 has many function blocks designed to emulate Simatic 505 elements.