Protool TP270 problems

Hi!

I have a TP270-10" display programmed with protool V6.0 SP2. I have a page with 420 fields. When compiling I get the following warning:

W3532 Screen Cooler_overview: permitted number of fields exceeded. Configured number: 420, 200 fields are permitted.

Question 1: Is the maximum number of fields per screen limited by protool or the display? (Will it help to get a display wich can handle more fields per screen?)

Question 2: When I jump to the screen it takes almost a minute before the screen is build-up. What options do I have to speed up this process. (Display is now connected to 3Mbit/s profibus).

Thanks!

I have configured up to 250 elements on a screen on an OP270-10 (basically the same as your TP270-10), and up to 350 elements on a screen in Protool Pro RT.
It worked without much problems.

420 is a bit much, maybe you have hit the "roof".
Does the same 1 minute delay occur on screens where you have less than 200 elements ?
How many tags do you have ?
Are there any scripts ?

JesperMP said:

I have configured up to 250 elements on a screen on an OP270-10 (basically the same as your TP270-10), and up to 350 elements on a screen in Protool Pro RT.
It worked without much problems.

420 is a bit much, maybe you have hit the "roof".
Does the same 1 minute delay occur on screens where you have less than 200 elements ?
How many tags do you have ?
Are there any scripts ?

Click to expand...

At this moment 811 tags. (Still working on the project)
No scripts
Online all screens are working but the screen with the 420 fields takes a long time before it shows. All other screens work like i'm used to.

At first the display was connected to MPI. This was even more slow. Now on profibus it is better but still very slow. I did not yet try a screen with less then 200 fields.

Because it's an scada like overview page it is not an option to remove fields.

So in the end the display is working but Siemens do not garrentee that the result is like it supposed to be.

I will try less then 200 fields, increasing profibus speed and mabye increasing acquisition cycle.

Online all screens are working but the screen with the 420 fields takes a long time before it shows. All other screens work like i'm used to.

Click to expand...

This more or less gives away that the problem is more onscreen objects than the panel can handle.
811 tags is not so much.
I run two PCs with approx 450 tags at 1.5M and the screen response is "instant".

You could try to use an MP panel in stead of the TP. It has more CPU power and memory, so maybe it will work better.

edit: Ask Siemens to provide you a demo model of an MP270 or MP370.
They will only be interested in selling you an MP in stead of a TP.

I have tried several things without results. (Screen with 175 fields is also very slow). I used my profibus analyser to see the communication flow. I noticed that the display is using a FDL profibus protocol instead of the DP protocol. Can this give conflicts?

Normally we have displays connected to MPI. What considerations are there with the network described below:

1 CPU 317
18+ DP slaves (drives, servo's etc)
2 TP270-10
2 Mobile panel 170

At this moment this is all connected to the same profibus network. All the drives/servo's are in the panel so at this point in time the profibus stays inside my panel. Hereby I can garentee a good working profibus. (High speeds/low cable length etc).

If I connect the displays I will have to go outside the panel with the profibus. What's the best solution for this? I'm thinking about buying an extra profibus module for the connection of all the displays.

What settings do I make in protool?

What kind of fields are you using on the TP?
Can you post a picture of it or even better post the project then I can test with my simulation software and see if its still slow.

Cheers
Borte

Borte said:

then I can test with my simulation software and see if its still slow.

Click to expand...

With the simulation software everything is fast and ok. But the real thing is for this one page very slow. Unfortunately I can't post any pictures/files because of a system administrator having blocked us. I'll post a picture later to night from my home adres.

I hope this works!

This cooler has 10 levels. On each level I can have 35 batches. So that's already 350 fields. (The small blocks represent batches) These batches can have 5 colors (attributes)

I have a few ideeas...

I don't know if it will actually work but it's worth a shoot;

Try to set all your tags (on this screen) to update continously in the tag properties. This will however create a hevy load on the communication between the plc and the hmi. But it may decrease the time needed to load the screen on the hmi. The TP doesn't monitor the tags before the are actually needed on the screen (this is done to prevent a lot of communication), so I think that reading over 400 tags probably takes a lot of time.

The other thing to try (which will help for the refresh rate of the tags) is changing the systemclock multiplier of the PLC properties in the protool project. I think its default to 5. try setting it to a lower value. This will help for all tags in the project.

Cheers
Borte

I noticed that the display is using a FDL profibus protocol instead of the DP protocol. Can this give conflicts?

Click to expand...

Thats because the HMI uses Master-to-master comms. DP works only from Master-to-slave.

Can you create a test page with 400 objects but with no online tags attached(substite the controller tag for an object with an internal tag. Then copy that object 400 times) ?
If that page opens quickly, then the problem is because of the comms.

Are the 800 tags relatively collected together in one or just a few memory areas ? Or are the tags spread out over many different DBs ?

Is everything integrated into the same STEP7 project ? If so, what target rotation time for the Profibus network does STEP7 calculate ?

Borte/JesperMP,

I'll give it a try and will come back to this issue on monday. It's weekend now and I don't have my laptop with me.

Thanks!

Hereby the results:

Page 400+ objects all connected to the same tag without controller: Page opens in about 3 seconds

Page 400+ objects all connected to the same tag connected to controller: Page opens in about 3 seconds

So the time is partially build up time and most of the time is lost with communication.

Our supplier has the following advise:

There is no display wich can handle 420+ fields on one page. The one which comes close is the MP370 (400 fields/page). He alse advises to keep the data connected to prevent multiple message headers. (Also suggested by JesperMP).

I'll put a separate CP342-5 profibus communication card in the plc to handle all HMI data. Where possible I'll make sure all tags are in the same DB and in one range. (Most of it is already like that) This will reduce the time as much as possible. If the time is still to long then I have to split the page in two or three.

Werner: Did you try to set the tags to update continously?

Cheers
Borte

Not yet (It is a lot of work, I'll give it a try tomorrow). There isn't a way to set the acquisition cycle for multiple tags at once?