TR encoder question

Does anyone has some experience using an TR encoder ?

It's mounted on an elevator .
one revolution = 3.33 m
elevator moves for 50m !

How do i configure the Stroke ->type ? wich values ? The total lengt is 50m !

thanx

I don't have experience with TR encoders but I do have experience with absolute encoders with a Profibus gateway of Heidenhain/Leine&Linde.
The question is which interface and which PLC you are using?

Hi DeHulk

I have used several encoders from TR, what type (Number, incremental, programmable ?) is it you are using ?


Regards Brian

TR :

Tr Electronic Gmbh
Typ : CE 65M
Art.nr. : 110-00444
SN : 3665
Stebel./Version : 182 /V001
Schnitstelle/Code : SSI / prog.
Ausgangspegel : RS422

used with SL 3005 GS 130 =
www.fernsteuergeraete.de/ fsg/pdfs/FSG_Seillaengenaufnehmer.pdf

and connected to siemens SM338 card

Hi DeHulk

You have to use the Win prog software and the cable whit the converterbox atached from to program this encoder.

The software is located here :
http://www.tr-gruppe.de/Dokuserver/Service_DownloadsCEGeneral.htm

The cabel you have to by from your local TR dealer.

Regards
Brian

i use the eprog soft but i have no idea wich values to use ?

Can the encode give the exact postion or do i need to do calculations in STEP7 to ?

The encoder only counts up or down depending on the direction, if you want the position in anything else than counts you have to calculate it your self.

Are you using an SFC to convert the PEW to counts ?

Regards
Brian

DeHulk said:

i use the eprog soft but i have no idea wich values to use ?

Can the encode give the exact postion or do i need to do calculations in STEP7 to ?

Click to expand...

I dont mean to be disrespectfull here, but it's obivious your totally lost and shouldnt be working on this particular issue with this elevator. Your questions are so basic that it leads me to believe that you have NO prior expireance working with this.

Secondly if when you say the elevator, you mean something that people ride on, it would be very ill advised to use that type of encoder configuration for positioning. My guess with the distance you indicate the speed would be around 152 mpm wich would be way too fast for the takeup reel on the encoder.

For safey's sake you really need to seek professional assistance with this.

elevmike said:

I dont mean to be disrespectfull here, but it's obivious your totally lost and shouldnt be working on this particular issue with this elevator. Your questions are so basic that it leads me to believe that you have NO prior expireance working with this.

Secondly if when you say the elevator, you mean something that people ride on, it would be very ill advised to use that type of encoder configuration for positioning. My guess with the distance you indicate the speed would be around 152 mpm wich would be way too fast for the takeup reel on the encoder.

For safey's sake you really need to seek professional assistance with this.

Click to expand...

I dont mean to be disrespectful here, but it's obvious you
dont't know that there are elevators and ......elevators.

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/elevator

I know for sure nobody will let you work on the elevators of the Sears Tower.

So....I don't think you need to worry too much about this one

Pego - do you happen to know for sure which type of 'elevator' which DeHulk refers to? If it is the cage for moving people between floors then be assured that 'elevmike' is indeed an expert here. While I don't know if he has worked on ones the extent of those in the Sears Tower, I would bet he would be qualified. How about you? I believe he is expressing a most obvious concern - given the 50 meter figure cited by DeHulk.

Pego,

You can flame or slam me all you want; it really dosnt matter. I'm fully aware of my capabilities and limitations. I just hope DeHulk is also.

The point is that it appears to be an elevator in a building or shallow mine that people ride on; so it needs to be said. This could be serious safety issue that shouldnt be addressed by one with little or no expierance without some proper/professional guidence.

There are usually two applications for encoders on elevators. 1) for closed loop motor control. 2) for positioning feedback on the car. The pdf DeHulk posted leads me to belive that he's using the encoder to position the car in the hoistway.

The distance indicates high speed, (300fpm - 500fpm). It's likely that the cable will slack on return and cause bounce. He would be far better off to install a quadrature encoder on the governor shaft like everybody else, (including the Sears Tower). If by chance he can get away with the pull-out encoder then at the very least there needs to be a safety switch to detect a broken or slack cable that would shut down the elevator, or cause it to return in a safe manner to mabey the lowest floor, or something like that.

DeHulk,

Can the encode give the exact postion or do i need to do calculations in STEP7 to ?

Click to expand...

You have to setup a counter in the Step 7 that would reset to a spicific known value at the top and bottom of the hoistway. Your floor positions, slowdowns, and leveling values would be stored in the PLC, and the count would be compaired to thoes values to initiate the approprate actions. (1st slowdwon, 2nd slowdown, 3rd slowdown etc... up & down leveling, door zone & relevel etc..) A virtual cam setup so to speek.

How do i configure the Stroke ->type ? wich values ? The total lengt is 50m !

Click to expand...

You could enter them by hand, or setup some code to "learn" & store them. Then run the car up the hoistway, stop at each position and initiate an input that would cause that positions value to store in the approprate memory location.

To start with; Imagine your using conventional cams and draw all the cams on a board or paper to represent all the necessary cams in the hoistway from top to bottom of the hoistway. The top and bottom of each cam will be assigned a value based on it's vertical position in the hoistway. So if the count is between thoes values, then that cam would be active.

You should have a seperate redundent device that would prevent the car from moving away from the floor with the doors open in the event that the encoder fails and somehow causes a miss read/count.

You've got a lot of complicated programming in front of you. Whatever you do, please just make sure that you consider all the possabilities for failure and account for them. No matter how robust your encoder may seem, if it's all your relying on and it fails, there will be catostrophic results possably involving the loss of life and/or limb.

Hi guys ..if it makes you happy it's not a real elevator I'm working on ! I just have to know to know the position of an vertical movings part of a machine . Just used the word elevator for a simple explanation of my situation !

If you post more detail about the project, I might be able to give you a few pointers. The same ideas regarding code would apply.

Ok the project is actually an lance that blows oxygen. The hight of the lance is alreaddy monitorred by another encoder on the axis.But for a safety issue they constructed a second encoder using a "rope"

My main problem in configuring the encoder using the eprog-software
I know that one revolution is 0,3333 m !

according to the other encoder the home position is 10,82 m ( maintenaince position is higher)
When the lance goes down it gives around 2m (depends on the proces)

So can you tell using this information what i fill in in the eprog software at

Revolv/ Stroke
R.p.s denominator
Steps

My regards

From what you posted (regarding the encoder & software) I cant really tell you much. 1) The data sheet you refered to dosnt seem to have anything that matches the part no. for the encoder you refered to. 2) Most of what I have pick up in my forgien language skills cant be repeated on this forum; so I cant really get much out of the documents. Also there's a language barrier between us that's not helping either. 3) (a biggie) I've never used this type of encoder. So right now all I can provide is very basic information.

All that said: I'll give it a shot anyway.

As far as I can tell, the sofware for your programmable encoder is only for setting up or configuring the signal interface between the encoder and the interface module on your PLC. Once that's done, the PLC will only see the pulse train, (or in the case of an absolute encoer the value) Once you have the interface configured properly you then need to program your PLC to recognize that signal also. Setting up the positioning setpoints are a matter of programming the PLC.