Hardware uppgrade from S5 to S7

JIMCON · Jan 16, 2006

Hello..

Im workin with a projekt where the customer wants to uppgrade their old S5 system to a S7 system..

The system they have today is an S5 CPU944 F 155U system with 1x Profibus DP card, 2x CP525(modbus)card and 1x CP5431 FMS card.

Question is what S7 system is the most similar to this system if I want to uppgrade. I think that im gonna need a very powerful CPU to hande the communication cards. I think the system handles over 600 distribuated I/O signals..

It would help me alot if someone could help me get started with this.

SimonGoldsworthy · Jan 16, 2006

I have not used any FMS cards so I can't offer any advice in this area, however, the Step 5 system that I used was a 945CPU + 1x308C + 1x525 + 60 remote stations. The Step 7 upgrade used a 318-2DP. Am now using the 317-2DP.

A word of caution concerning the Step 5 remote I/O. Certain modules have been through various revisions (e.g. ET200B analogue inputs) that may give you problems when it comes to scaling.

I have done a few Step 5 to Step 7 upgrades recently and I have found the best method is to replace the ET200B analogue modules with the latest version.

PLucas · Jan 16, 2006

JIMCON said:
1x CP5431 FMS card.

What is connected to the CP5431? Is it used for WinCC?

If it is used for WinCC (that is the only application I have used a CP5431 for) then you will not need this 'additional' card in your S7 configuration, you could use the MPI port for this or even 'piggy back' on the DP port

Paul

JIMCON · Jan 16, 2006

PLucas said:
What is connected to the CP5431? Is it used for WinCC?

It is connected to "4, so called "MCU" that controls 4 diesel engines. I also belive that this FMS bus is the one that slows down the system abit. So if its possible to get rid of the FMS card, I think I would gain some speed. Plz Correct me if im wrong ?

The Modbus cards are connected to 2 HMIs
And the Profibus DP car is conected to 36 Distribuated I/O nodes

Thanx for the info so far...

JIMCON · Jan 18, 2006

So it is possible to connect profibus FMS to the MPI port ?

PLucas · Jan 18, 2006

JIMCON said:
So it is possible to connect profibus FMS to the MPI port ?

No that is not possible,

As you want profibus FMS and DP, you will probably have to purchase a CP (CP343-5) card for the profibus side, then you can use the CPU's built in profibus port for your remote I/O (DP) and set the CP343-5 up as FMS.

Paul

JIMCON · Jan 18, 2006

Aha Ok.. that sounds pretty smart.

Anyhow do u think a S7 317-2DP or S7 318-2DP to mach the old S5 944CPU.
Im just wondering if a S7 400 system would be unnesserary expensive compared if im using a 317 or 318 system..

SimonGoldsworthy · Jan 18, 2006

A 318 is actually a 400 series CPU in a 300 series package. The 317 (when I last looked) is quicker in all except floating point arithmetic.
So unless you need the 4 accumulators and some of the more flexible forcing features of the 318, a 317 is the choice here (a 317 is also a lot cheaper than the 318).

What you need to know is how much memory your final code will require as these CPU's have a finite amount of memory that cannot be expanded. You don't want to get near to completion only to find you need to keep deleting blocks every time you need to download a change, or worse still, the code won't fit!

JIMCON · Jan 18, 2006

no that would be a disaster heh.. Thansk for that tip..

Now I just got told, that the Profibus FMS cards to siemens 300 system is not as good as the FMS card to S7 400 system. ??

PLucas · Jan 18, 2006

JIMCON said:
Now I just got told, that the Profibus FMS cards to siemens 300 system is not as good as the FMS card to S7 400 system. ??

Did the person who told you this give a reason for that statement?

I haven't used any S7 profibus cards in FMS mode, so I can't comment on that.

Paul

JIMCON · Jan 18, 2006

No he didnt give me a clear reason.. He said it has someting to do with (Master to Master communication). Cause theres 4 masters on the FMS bus.
I dont know much about what master to master communication is.. I know what Master->slave communication is.

But this is getting intressting. I think i have to investigate if its true or not. I mean why should´nt an FMS card on a (S7-317) system be as powerfull as on a (S7-400) system or a S5-944 system.. ?

JesperMP · Jan 18, 2006

Rather than making the S7 talk "FMS", why not investigate if the MCU unit can talk "DP".
FMS is rarely used. DP is the industry standard.

A really neat system would consist only of a single S7 CPU with a single DP network.

Are you by any chance using the "F" functions (safety) in the S5 CPU944 F 155U ?
If so, you would have to consider an "F" S7 CPU. For example S7-317F.

JIMCON · Jan 19, 2006

I think my chances are very small if I want to use DP to the MCU units.
But i could always investigate the possibillity..

And yes you´re right, when i took a look in my specifications on what S5 system that is installed today it is an S5 CPU944 F 155U..
Mange tack for that help Jesper..

Now the remaining problem to solve, is to check out why the FMS cards to a S7 300 cant handle Master to Master communication as good as a S7 400 FMS card. Atleast its what ive been told.. ??

JesperMP · Jan 19, 2006

Dont give up DP just yet.

I googled "MCU diesel profibus" and found
http://www.menmicro.com/docs-ext/products/pdf/railway_en.pdf
Is that related to what you are dealing with ?

On page 15 an M40 module that talks FMS is mentioned and also an M79 DP slave module. It could be worth looking into.

Then again. That equipment may be totally unrelated to what you are looking at.

JIMCON · Jan 20, 2006

I have investigated the case now. And I cant use nothing else than FMS on the MCUs. It is possible to use DP, but then they have to reprogram the microcontroller and thats not an option in this case

So i have to accept that an move further with my studies..

The big problem right now is what Multicomputing means?.
Cause the S7-300 doesnt support that. And the S7-400 does.. ?

Hardware uppgrade from S5 to S7

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