home automation

I am looking to build a house in the near future. I would like to automate some functions in the house and to centralize some of the lighting functions into a touch pad or some other type of device. I'm not real sure if a PLC is overkill or if a standard off the shelf home automation package would be better. I really enjoy wiring things up and interested in programming PLC. We have PLC';s and RTU at work and I can do only minimal programming. Anyone out been there and done it?

Hi kshuffle

try this site
http://www.clipsal.com/cis/profile.php3
and click on the home management link down the bottom.

Clipsal is an Aussie company that dominates here in domestic and industrial electrical gear but to my surprise they have sprung up around the world also now. You can find you local US dealer via this site
http://www.clipsalusa.com/

Have fun!

off the shelf

hi kshuffle

It all depends on how many items you want to automate. It also depands on what you want them to do. Simple on/off applications and security systems are likely to be less expensive if you go with an off the shelf package. If you really like to do the wiring yourself and design the system Radio Shack is a quick and easy place for ideas and hardware. With this like any other project it will take a little looking into and list what you plan to do, then find the system that does it.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was hoping to run into someone who has already wired his own home. The old been there and done it thing. Well anyway I will keep looking and designing.

Hi,

What you want to ask yourself is, how long will I stay in this house and how much will it cost me when I resell it.

Has you know, adding money to the kitchen and bathroom is very smart, you'll get all this money back and more. Home automation can be tricky.

The less money you spend, i.e. using X-10 or similar products which can be easaly removed and will fit the next house is one thing.

At the other end of the spectrum, you wire it as an "Homerun" system. You bring ALL the I/Os to a central junction box near you main circuit breaker panel and first, you wire the I/O simply at that place. Not need for PLC. You have a typical system but the jonction between the Is and the devices is made at the JB end.

In between the two you will fit wahtever you want. And you'll have control over ALL.

This is more expensive, It cannot be moved to your next house... but, Ho what fun you will have programming it.

For my last new house, I did an Homerun system for the communication aspect: 2 Cat5 + 2 pairs fiber optic + 2 RG6 at a central location and to every room and every door in the house... garage included. I have 4 rooms with double networks and have also RS422/485 at front and back door.

The rest is X-10 and similar devices. I have Broadband everywhere, a central server with W2K and in-house Web server. Its been a year since the house was built... I still have many years of fun in front of me...

Next summer project is lawn sprincklers and pool filtration automation.

By the way... all the wiring cost me 460$ Canadian

The home run method I was planning on using. I was going to dedicate a small room to house the control panel and all of the I/O. The contol panel is probably the biggest thing I am researching right now. It looks like x-10 is the most common metod out there. But I just don't know if that is the way I want to go. I would like to have a user interface to control lighting in different traffic patterns (in/out, perimeter, shop). Security and video are on the list as well. Pierre what are you using for a central controller?

Here in the states it is getting common for upscale housing to be pre-wired with CAT-10 cable and ethernet wall jacks in every room. That way it is easy to install a LAN. Since ethernet I/O is getting fairly inexpensive you might consider going that way. Then, whether your controller is PLC based, PC based, or singleboard computer based, you have your I/O communications in place. Then you can wire the I/O to various devices in the basement, at panelboards, whatever.

"The home run method I was planning on using." -kshuffle

OK, now you've just eleminated all the X10 type of devices. These are low end (altough very functionnal) devices to use when you dont have an homerun or elaborate system.

"I was going to dedicate a small room to house the control panel and all of the I/O." -kshuffle

My panel fits under the basement stairs. Its a 36" x 36" x 8" Rittal double doors with glass windows. But I have a limited homerun for the I/Os. I run only what comes from outside the house. Since the basement ceiling is not finish yet I still add to the system every now and then.

If you do wire it complete, you'll need at least a 48" x 36" panel.
Do not forget to leave space for isolation relays. The control system should activate those relays. Do not use the outputs directly...

"It looks like x-10 is the most common metod out there."-kshuffle

Not exactly, the X10 is VERY good for beginners and for the ones who don't want to get there hands dirty... Its simple, available but VERY limited. It's also quite expansive... when you have the kind of setup you intend to have i.e. homerun wiring.

Many manufacturers will tell you that they can sell you the perfect system. You will find that they are also very expansive.

What you want is a SCADA for your home... then get one. Not the cheap stuff from home automation firms. Here the word cheap is not mentionned for the cost... it's for the features availbale. I still am playing with my speach recognition software and it still does not want to understand my french

"Pierre what are you using for a central controller?"-kshuffle

OK, here it is.

I have a W2K Server (pentium 333 with 512 KRAM)
Its on my broadband (10/100) Network
Comunicating with this, I have Opto-I/Os from Dutec:
- 2 x 16 In 24 Vdc
- 2 x 16 In 120 Vac
- 4 x 16 Out Relay
...And also 1 Mitsubishi Fx-64
...And also 1 Omron CPM1A 40
...And also 1 x Rain8 (X10 compatible 8 channel out)
...And 1 x Beijer E-600 HMI
Plus many X-10 devices (wireless audio, movement sensor, + + )
...and I almost forgot 32 0/10 Vdc IN

So what is my central controler ?

Some Excel with DDE link, some VB apps with Serial connections, Some direct serial connection with Opto, some central program inside the PLCs, some serial links between PLCs and some going through the PC and some through the HMI...

I have a minimum of 3 PCs always running in the house, they have GUIs for the system in each.

So the main control is not "main" its more of a cellular implementation.

For the SCADA i've used, Paragon TNT and know am going to move to Citect.

Complicated, not really!
Fun, definatly!
Costly, not really! I have salvaged all this stuff from jobs I've done... (still tryng to figure out how to fit an old Modicon PLC rack in the group)
Educationnal, MOST DEFINETLY!

PS: For the network wiring, I cut the cost by half, just by purchasing the cable seperatly. They sell complete homerun cable with 2 Cat5,2RG6 and 2 Fiber pairs but it cost a lot more than buying them seperate.

Thanks Pierre, it sounds like I am on the right track. I definitely want a industrial grade system that has some backbone. The isolation relays, large jbox and small PLC look like a fairly inexpensive, this is going to be a custom built home so all of this will be apart of the budget. The user interface looks like a expensive package. I was initially looking at the JDS Stargate equipment, it looked to have the flexibility I want. But at this point it's research and design. I would love to take a look at your system and sounds interesting and fun.

Thanks

If I was to start from scratch... like you, I would :

First, Homerun Networking and comunication
Second, Homerun I/Os
Then...

http://www2.automationdirect.com/store/Home/Home

And...

http://www.homeautomationforum.com/

I would not purchase some stuff like Stargate or others. You are in the feild of automation... you are the expert ! Not them.

This is what I was meannig when I said... "getting there hands dirty"

Your absolutely right, getting my hands dirty is what I enjoy and thanks for the links. Keep me posted on your project.

Thanks

About Tom's reply.

I fully agree with you about the broadband-equiped houses being more and more built.

There is also some project in the great whyte north where houses are pre-wired for broadband communications.

I have serious doubts on the application of this style of wiring to automation. Like the recent CE show in San Diego, Intel new line of CPUs are said to target main consumer devices (fridge, dishwashers, etc)

Say you have a fridge which call on the supermarket to order butter... This could be real in a few years... but those nice house... where did they put the LAN connection... shurely not behind the fridge. Wireless fridge communication? OK, then why hard-wiring the house in the first place?

When we built an industrial system, we can move junction boxes and power feed to different places on a system. In a house, once the walls are up... its a little difficult.

Of course ehternet I/Os are cheaper than they where but they need a power source where the devices are installed. Maybee you meant to have those Ethernet device at the control panel. This would be a good choice.

In a previous house, I had an homerun wiring. The biggest problem I've faced (beside the umengous price for the electrician) was to install sheet metal where all those cables where passing through walls. Its a darn big bunch a cable. No one wants to hang a mirror on a wall where those cables pass from floor to floor. The amount of single cable was unbeleivable!

You know a couple of years ago a group of us went to USFilter in Minnesota to do a factory acceptance test on the RTU's we just purchased. One of the things we wanted to do was to go to the Honeywell house of the future. We were really disappointed at the old technology that was in the house and how limited they utilized it. We thought one of the coolest things we saw in there were the hidden cabinet locks (they are made by Revlock).Things haven't changed much in those couple of years from what I have seen. I guess the biggest thing I am looking at is a simple interface to run my system. The PLC is really what I want because of the reliability and flexibility. But in order to see (GUI) what is going on and to run the system it has to be easy to operate or it will not catch on and grow. I am an electrician by trade and PLC's are the most logical step in my development. It has been mind blowing at times but it is fun learning. So with this house in the works it has been great to find a site with people like me who get a kick out of torqueing our brains on a daily basis. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

Kshuffle, did you check out the clipsal site? There is no need for bulky control panel with their gear. The c-bus system will do all your apps, lighting, retic, home alarm, power, air con, heating, whatever you want. Give it a good look, Ive just finish building a new house myself ( what a pain ) and I definitely would have put the c-bus in but I dont intend being there for more than a year.

I think you will have fun with this, especially if you do as Pierre has done, and I am in the process of doing, and use actual industrial equipment. I to am building (actually an EXTENSIVE remodel). The house is wired now with homeruns for fast etehernet, 16 conductor cable to each section (accessable from the unfinished basement) some fiber, and RG6 to each room.
Presently, the only automation I have done is turn on some outdoor lights when a photocell sends an input to a SLC100, and a short program segment that controls my gas fireplace (it didn't come equipped with a thermostat, so that seemed like the perfect place to utilize the SLC. So don't worry too much about overkill!!).
I have more extensive plans along the line of what Pierre has done, which I will get to as construction progresses.