fist SCADA project

Hello All.

I have a small SCADA assignment to monitor a coating line. It is my fist SCADA project and I need help to prevent problems that might appear after parts delivered. I have to monitor on PC several discreet and analog inputs. Also operator should be able to enter several parameters. I choose the Automation Direct because they provide clear on-line manuals. At the factory we have just few AB ML1000 and one Mitsubishi PLC. My electrical boss preferred Mitsubishi but company still doesn’t have any PLC standard approved. So I would like to show AD version and if he will be able to provide Mitsubishi alternative we will compare.

I am going to use Ethernet network and as the cheapest option I choose Ethernet Based Controller. It is a remote I/O - T1H-EBC100. As far as I understand there is no any program inside that is doing control scans. PC as a master supposes to arrange all control. Also I am going to use PC-KEPEBC-3 APC server and VisualBasic client. So, I have doubts:

1. How to read a 100 PPR encoder (Max line speed 200 m/min)? Is my network configuration and PC Windows application deterministic enough to read pulses to count length and calculate the speed?

2. How my HMI will get an excess to I/O? Should I stick it into Ethernet switch (preferable) or into local RS-485? I had only experience with local PLC DL405 – EZTouch HMI.

3. In the future we will probable control the process. Will it be a problem from Master PC through the Remote I/O?

Thanks a lot.

PC-KEPEBC-3 KEPDIRECT EBC I/O SERVER FOR UP TO 3 EBC 1
T1K-01AC TERMINATOR I/O AC PWR SUPPLY 120/240 VAC 1
T1K-INST-M TERMINATOR I/O INSTALLATION MANUAL 1
T1H-EBC100 100MB TERMINATOR I/O ETHERNET SLAVE I/F 1
T1H-EBC-M ETHERNET MANUAL TERMINATOR I/O 1
T1K-16ND3 16PT 12-24VDC SINK SOURCE INPUT 1
T1K-16B FULL SIZE TERMINAL BASE 3-ROW SCREW CLAMP 2
T1F-16AD-2 16 CH ANALOG INPUT VOLTAGE 14-BIT RESOLUTION 1
EA7-T8C 8 IN, COLOR, TFT TOUCH PANEL WITH ETHERNET & USB, SUPPORTS COMPACT FLASH 1
EA-PGMSW C-MORE TOUCH PANEL PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE 1
USB-CBL-AB6 USB 2.0, TYPE A-B CONNECTOR CABLE 6 FT LENGTH 1
E-SW05U IND. 10-100 ETHERNET SWITCH DIN 10-30 VDC RJ45 1
PSP24-060S POWER SUPPLY, SWITCHING, 24V, 60W PLASTIC, SCREW TERMINAL, 85-264VIN 1
TRD-N100-RZWD M.D. QUAD. ENCODER WITH 8MM SHAFT AND 100 PPR 1
JT-035D ENCODER MOUNTING BRACKET TRD-N/NA ENCODERS 1
GJ-8D ENCODER COUPLING 8MM GLASS FIBER REINFORCED 1

First SCADA

I have done a SCADA project with AD equipment(205,405). I monitored machine run times, parts produced, and log the data to EXCEL etc. I used Lookout SCADA package, and found it to be easy to set up and use. Granted, it wasn't a complex project, but I'm just a machinist by trade, and I got it to work pretty well. I would suggest using the ECOM module for communication. It is fast and easy to set up. Also, it frees up your other ports for HMI etc. I'm not sure about encoder counts directly to the SCADA (if I understand the post). I would let the PLC deal with Encoder, and monitor the Address in the SCADA. Others on this site can defintely help more. Good Luck


PS. My favorite feature was being able to program the PLC over ethernet from the SCADA computer. NO MORE LAPTOP!!!!!

Alex,

After re-reading your post, I see that you don't have a PLC or SCADA package listed. Are you proposing to use the SCADA to control the machine/line?

Let me get this right, this entire system is to get information back, right?

I see you have no PLC in your project, this might not be the best solution. If you ever plan to do more than reading input back it's a good idea to have a PLC. Also, you need some kind of high speed counter I/O to interface with the encoder.

Also not clear what the C-More touchscreen is for. C-More can't talk to a terminator I/O (I don't think). Why not just run a HMI off the PC?

edit: I would suggest (I/O -> PLC -> PC running HMI).

No SCADA package, no PLC, encoder and C-More HMI that are my key questions.

1. SCADA packages are expensive. I am going to use PC-KEPEBC-3 APC server for only $129. I believe that I can find way to get data from APC server by using Microsoft Visual Basic. I don’t need fancy pictures. For start to show the advantages of SCADA all I need it is a simple screen with alive process value, like: Line speed, production length, etc.

2. No PLC – it is the most doubtful question and it seems to me I have to use a PLC, but why I stuck with EBC it because in PC-KEPEBC package manual I didn’t find any example how it works with PLC ECOM module. Looks like PLC ECOM module needs LookOut Direct package only. Correct me if I am wrong.

3. Encoder. I never read encoder by PLC. I suppose my discreet DC input module with 4ms OFF to ON response will be able to interface with a 100 PPR encoder. Correct me if I am wrong.

4. C-More HMI. Since I don’t have a SCADA package and HMI will not work with T1H-EBC100 it push me again back to real PLC.

I would definately use a PLC. Mr Gates operating system is lousy for reliability. If you wish to use remote I/O from the computer may I suggest the Omron board PLC. It has a separate 24VDC power supply input so that if Mr Gates operating system does what it usually does and you have to re-boot - or even worse turn the computer off - the PLC continues to run. You can even take the board PLC out of the PCI slot and it will continue to run.

My preference, however, would be to have a dedicted PLC on the line with suitable inputs for the encoder. Far cheaper and more reliable. I would also use a small SCADA system for the job. If you have not done this type of job before, it can be fraught with problems.

Your 4ms input may be OK but how about the scan time? If the scan time is 10 milliseconds you will miss many pulses from the encoder. A small PLC with dedicated high speed inputs will not miss pulses as there are inbuilt buffers on the high speed inputs.

May I suggest you have a look at a small Omron PLC with dedicated high speed inputs for encoders and Omron CX-Supervisor SCADA. You actually buy the SCADA development package and can use it over and over. You only then have to purchase a run time version when you wish to implement a project - it has unlimited tags and is inexpensive. Supports VB and OPC as well so you can use it with other brands.

I agree that you are unlikely to get consistently fast response with just the PC. Since you need I/O anyway, I suggest you use a PLC (ADC 06 should be fine) and have it do the counting and have the SCADA read from it.

As far as "rolling your own" interface you should look closely at total cost. Some packages, like Lookout Direct, are low cost and have built in functions to save to CSV files, show trends, save alarms, etc. By the time you get done writing and de-buggin your own application you may well have spent more money (and time is money) than buying a regular package would cost.

You need a high speed counter to keep the counts from the encoder. Then sample that info. with the OPC Server. The PC communication will not be able to keep up with the counts.


Tom makes an excellent point regarding SCADA price vs total cost.

I also agree to use a PLC, that way you can add control in the future.

I have used T1-EBC's with OPC to collect data before, but it was temporary and offline from the production process. And my VB code was 80% written already from another application.

Using KEP with EBC and ECOM is pretty much the same. That is the easy part anyway. Writing an OPC Client in VB is the time consuming part.

Thanks everybody.

Can you check my configuration, please.

I can use 4fist DC inputs in D0-06DR PLC to read the TRD-N100-RZWD ENCODER.

SCADA PC-LKD-DEV LOOKOUT DIRECT can read my I/O from H0-ECOM100.

C-MORE TOUCH I can stick into E-SW05U ETHERNET SWITCH and get data from PLC. Is everything Ok here?

PC-LKD-DEV LOOKOUT DIRECT DEVELOPMENT SOFTWARE 1
D0-06DR DL06 20 DC IN / 16 RELAY MICRO PLC W/AC P/S 1
D0-06USER-M USER MANUAL FOR DL06 INCL D0-06LCD INST. 1
PC-PGMSW DIRECTSOFT PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE FOR ALL DL PLCS 32BIT 1
D2-DSCBL PC PGMING CABLE DL05/06 DL105 205 350 450 1
H0-ECOM100 10/100MBIT ETHERNET COMMUNICATION MODULE DL05/06 OPTION MODULE WITH MODBUS TCP 1
HX-ECOM-M H0-H2-H4 ECOM MANUAL 1
F0-04AD-2 4 CH ANALOG INPUT 0-5V/0-10V 12BIT RES 2
EA7-T8C 8 IN, COLOR, TFT TOUCH PANEL WITH ETHERNET & USB, SUPPORTS COMPACT FLASH 1
EA-PGMSW C-MORE TOUCH PANEL PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE 1
USB-CBL-AB6 USB 2.0, TYPE A-B CONNECTOR CABLE 6 FT LENGTH 1
E-SW05U IND. 10-100 ETHERNET SWITCH DIN 10-30 VDC RJ45 1
PSP24-060S POWER SUPPLY, SWITCHING, 24V, 60W PLASTIC, SCREW TERMINAL, 85-264VIN 1
TRD-N100-RZWD M.D. QUAD. ENCODER WITH 8MM SHAFT AND 100 PPR 1
JT-035D ENCODER MOUNTING BRACKET TRD-N/NA ENCODERS 1
GJ-8D ENCODER COUPLING 8MM GLASS FIBER REINFORCED 1

Do you need both the C-more and the Lookout direct?


Lookout could be your HMI.

I think I need both C-More and Lookout.

C-More for operator to enter production requests. Lookout for supervisor to monitor the process from his PC.
Is it correct?

Is the supervisor's PC on the plant floor? Can it be used to enter production requests? If not, what is the data required for the production requests? Does the supervisor need to monitor the actual process or can he use data in a spreadsheet or data base form?

I'm thinking that learning both Lookout and CMore in your first HMI project might be avoided.

Have a good look at Citect.

Free download at www.citect.com

You could use Lookout at the machine and have it log data to your network in a spreadsheet format or multiple spreadsheets. From there everyone could look at what they are interested in.

Also for your encoder you will probably want a D2-CTRINT module.