PLC for home automation?

antor · Apr 2, 2006

Hi, I live in Europe and the home automation protocols available here (x10) are not reliable and the more robust one (Insteon) is not available yet.

I am building my new house and I'd like to use a PLC to control everything, from lighting to heaters, etc.

I am looking at the Omron CPM2A in its AC powered relay outputs configuration (CPMA2A-60CDR-A) but the switching current is limited to 2A @ 240V, which roughly means ~500W. I may have outlets which would need more (e.g. heater, computers, etc.) - I am thinking on getting external relays supporting more current for those.

Any suggestions for relays? Any suggestions other than the Omron?

elevmike · Apr 2, 2006

1) On the PLC, Personally I'd go for a AutomationDirect DL-06. However I dont know how it compaires to the Omron your looking at, or if it's available to you in Spain. I do know the DL-06 has lots of features, costs about $220.00 USD, and has a short learning curve.

2) The relays: I would use seperate relays driven by the PLC outputs. They will be easier and cheaper to replace when the time comes. I would not use solid state relays due to the leakage current issue. Some of your appliances may not react well to this.

scottmurphy · Apr 2, 2006

Cbus?

Clipsal make a product called CBus which is designed for this application. I am not a salesman, and am a fan of PLC's over most other control methods, but for this type of application, where the control is very basic, then CBus is a decent solution, the only thing would be the cost as opposed to a PLC. But wiring and installation costs are different, than with a PLC.

check out www.clipsal.com/cis for information. I know this product is available in the UK, and more than likely spain also.

This product has advanced from when I first got involved with it in its early days, and is some neat products out there. Seriously worth considering, but again, the hardware cost will possibly be the decider.

Configuring the system is not that difficult, if you have an understanding of network configurations and bus type systems, then it shouldn't take you long to get up to speed.

surfer · Apr 3, 2006

when i built my new home two years ago i consided whether to use a plc or clipsal cbus

in terms of hardware costs the io is more expensive
as i am an electricain and programmer i could do all the work myself

all switches and control racks are looped with cat5 cable using some form of serial comms
this makes the control wiring easy

one big reason i chose a commercial product like cbus
was with a plc if you go to sell the house it would be one of very few houses with a plc as there is many house's with cbus

you now link wireless devices to it

antor · Apr 3, 2006

elevmike said:
1) On the PLC, Personally I'd go for a AutomationDirect DL-06. However I dont know how it compaires to the Omron your looking at, or if it's available to you in Spain. I do know the DL-06 has lots of features, costs about $220.00 USD, and has a short learning curve.

2) The relays: I would use seperate relays driven by the PLC outputs. They will be easier and cheaper to replace when the time comes. I would not use solid state relays due to the leakage current issue. Some of your appliances may not react well to this.

Great pointer! Thanks!Could you recommend suitable relays for the DL-06 unit?

Regards,

Andres

elevmike · Apr 3, 2006

Check here for some relays:
http://web5.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/15A_Electro-Mechanical_Cube_Relays

(dont forget the sockets)

Heres a link for the DL-06: http://web5.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/PLC_Hardware/DirectLogic_06/PLC_Units

miller_02 · Apr 3, 2006

About how much more is a cbus unit as compared to a plc, pretty hard comparison to make i know but just take a stab at it.

jvdcande · Apr 3, 2006

antor said:
Hi, I live in Europe and the home automation protocols available here (x10) are not reliable and the more robust one (Insteon) is not available yet.

Anton, how about European Installation Bus (EIB)? It's about the most robust system I've heard about and it's supported by over 200 different manufacturers now.

Kind regards,

scottmurphy · Apr 3, 2006

About how much more is a cbus unit as compared to a plc, pretty hard comparison to make i know but just take a stab at i

Not sure on that one, the biggest difference between using a PLC and CBus, is that Cbus is a network based system, so you need to buy units to install your network. There is input units, output units, bridging units, touchscreens etc, and now, as surfer stated, they have wireless options also, I think the wireless option is the way they intend to retrofit to existing installations.
So depending on the no. of circuits, is how you would design and hence, price your installation, whether you want standard relays, or dimmers, or high power dimmers etc

There is also the possibility to link into hifi equipment via serial comms.

plcnewbie · Apr 4, 2006

What about using something designed for home automation. I once was an installer of these years ago and thought they were good. Although I have nothing to compare to.

http://www.basshome.com/subcategory_212.htm

surfer · Apr 5, 2006

it all depends on what you want to do if you just want to turn a few lights or water features on at certain times then a basic plc like the automation 06 or omron cpm2a etc
if you want dimming then you need analoge cards etc dimmer sytems
where as say cbus systems talk via coms

the full extent a a cbus style system is if say youre in your home theater sound up very lound and some one comes to the door then the system can change the tv to door camera turn the sound down swap to the door speaker turn the lights back up etc but costs a lot of money
i havent gone to those lenght,s

Lancer · Apr 5, 2006

About how much more is a cbus unit as compared to a plc, pretty hard comparison to make i know but just take a stab at it.

I recently looked at CBUS for a Builder mate of mine, he was quoting a 7 bedroom medium to large house for about 750k AUD, to go with the top of the range CBUS it added an extra 15-20k AUD to total, this include all the mod-cons CBUS has to offer.

I think the client is impressed by the product, but not by the price, cheap skate

antor · Apr 7, 2006

jvdcande said:
Anton, how about European Installation Bus (EIB)? It's about the most robust system I've heard about and it's supported by over 200 different manufacturers now.

Kind regards,

Hi - Can you point to a ecommerce store that distributes EIB products? My setup would be basic, and this is why I'm inclined to go to a PLC device.

Rgs - Andres

ieseng · Apr 7, 2006

Silly question

What are you going to Automate in your house?

I have only last year finished my house and it never occured to me to automate it.

jvdcande · Apr 7, 2006

Andres,

I'm not active in that field, but I know the website of the European Installation Bus Association. There I found out EIB currently uses the name Konnex and has a new website. There is a link to the Spanish site too. I don't read or speak any Spanish but from the looks of the page, I think you'll find any info you need there.

Kind regards,

PLC for home automation?

antor

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elevmike

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scottmurphy

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surfer

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antor

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miller_02

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