Width measurment withot a reflector

Prince

Member
Join Date
Jun 2002
Posts
284
Regarding a new project I am searching for a Sensor Capable of measuring the Edge of an object. I found many of them from Banner, Baumer, Sick or OMRON the problem is that for all, this width measuring sensors the sensor need one reflector or Emitter but in the situation with which I work, placing an Emitter or a Reflector is very very hard. I wonder If anybody can Introduce me a sensor which can work independantly...

The resoulution is about 0.3mm the range will be about 3cm and the technology used is not very important to me...
 
It is a pipe being meaured the Sensor must be engagged and disengagged for each Pipe that will need a complete mechanic Machine. That is Just why I am searching for a reflectorless type...
 
The channel stlye is a one piece sensor. So do you have to remove it after each measurment anyways, or only because it is now a 2 piece sensor?

George
 
Could it be possible to do it with a laser?
Measuring distance.

When a great variation appears then you only use the short measured length.

Just a thought.
 
AB makes some photoelectrics that don't require a reflector. Look for something like a 42DRP-5400 in the sensor catalog. That part number is completely off the top of my head so let me know if you can't find it. Been a busy day so I might be giving you a part number for a pair of wire strippers
 
what part of pipe you need to measure? diameter? lenght? wall thickness? bore diameter? keyence has nice sensors but they are quite more expencive compared to alternatives.
 
Panic Mode asked the right question (almost)...

- What, exactly, are you trying to measure?
- How do you plan to make the measurment? (This is not about what sensor.)
- What kind of precision are you looking for?

If you are simply trying to measure the width of the pipe, then, depending on the required precision, you should be able to get away with using a simple analog ranging laser. However, one side of the pipe has to be up against a hard-stop when it is measured. The hard-stop would be a known distance from the laser.

As in...
1. A pipe moves in for measurement.
2. The pipe is clamped against a hard-stop.
3. A measurement is taken.

- The distance between the laser and the hard-stop would be the base-distance.
- The distance between the laser and the clamped pipe would be the over-all offset.
- The difference between the two would be the width of the pipe.

Depending on the nature of the pipes (curves, bends, and what-not) and the precision needed, it might not be necessary to stop the pipe for the measurement. If both the clamp and the hard-stop consist of a set of rollers, you could, possibly, measure the width of the pipe "on-the-fly".

The hard-stop rollers would have to be hard, as in, very hard rubber, or hard plastic, or perhaps steel. The clamp rollers could be softer but they need to provide the necessary friction to keep the pipe moving.

The sensor could be self-adjusting (self-zeroing, self-taring) to accomodate for wear on the hard-stop rollers. Between pipes, the sensor reads the distance to the hard-stop roller - that is the base distance.

It would really help if you gave a better description of what you are really trying to measure.

EXCUUUUSE MEEE! (I'm off on a Tangent now...)

I always find it very disappointing when a poorly described problem is posed, and then a wide range of suggestions are made ("shot-gun" style), and then, after a re-post or two, the original poster disappears without answering questions and without describing the "solution" he has decided to use, and why.

THE single biggest reason for poorly designed process-control is poorly defined problems. EVERY SINGLE STEP of developing a process is a PROBLEM! And if a problem is poorly defined, the resulting "solution" will be equally poor. Unless, of course, one makes a very general query and someone just happens to "make a guess" and come up with a workable solution - not necessarily THE appropriate solution, but alas, a solution that might sorta-kinda work, now and then. However, for whatever reason, it appears to satisfy the original poster.

Those kind of people are "Takers"... not "Givers".

Prince... in all the years you have been coming to this site, I don't recall you being much of a "Giver" (contributor)... you are primarily a "Taker". And you keep coming back, over and over again.

"Coming back" is fine! Not a problem! But... golly, gee, darn-it... at the very least, can't you PLEASE provide some feedback?

Yes, I understand it has only been one day. But... your record is on record!
 
As a matter of interest, there is a laser sensor from Limab that will measure thickness on the fly. Not cheap but they do work.
Regards Alan case
 
I agree, but....

Terry Woods said:
I always find it very disappointing when a poorly described problem is posed, and then a wide range of suggestions are made ("shot-gun" style), and then, after a re-post or two, the original poster disappears without answering questions and without describing the "solution" he has decided to use, and why.
You don't have to answer. Don't let if bother you. Relax and have a MGD. I let Phil be the noise and poor question police.
Sit back and answer those questions that interest you. If you are bored then start your own thread. I am sure you can think of something new to share.
 
Thanks for your Kind attention and Sorry for my very late response, I was out of town working on another mission.

Herewith I am trying to explain the matter more in detail...

Drawing2.jpg



The machine is a beveling Machine with which we bevel both End of Pipe. As you can see, the machine consists of 4 Parts, two indexing systems. and two beveling head for beveling each head of the pipe. 1st one side will be indexed then a walking segment which is not shown in the picture moves the pipe to the other step to be bevelled then the Pipe woul be indexed in the other side and then as before moved to other section for bevelling. But What is the problem?
The walking section which moves the pipe from indexes to Beveling heads is designed very very very very stupid so as the movement is not as smooth as it must be then the pipe moves a bit in some of the pipe ( about 2-3 mm for or backward) and it gets closer or further than normal to the head. The head is blind and work independently so it makes an uncomplete bevel or crashes and harms itself. I made a suggestion for my boss to fix the problem by civilizing the movement of the walking but it will cost him a deal of money and time. so weget to this solution : If we know where does realy the pipe is we could recalculate the servo approach and cutting and start it so we would get to a solution like we see in the second picture. but the problem is that we can have no point to place the reflector of the sensor...

Drawing1.jpg



Here was the problem I tried to explain. I am checking the ideas and I will let you know
about the progress or explain more to help....

And things not related to the question:

Hi Terry
During these years you have been the answer to many of my questions, Thank you. I must say that I am surely not as experienced as you. a Kind of student in this class and the best Job for a student is to ask. so I am doing my best. I started the automation with this forum and may be I will get experienced enough to help others a day. I am learniing How to ask too, I am studying again your above lesson I will try my best. Regarding this question as far as I was concerned it was "Have you ever seen?" question not a "Plz Help me find a way" one.I was very very busy with other jobs and I just had 2-3 hours of time to find an answer and I thought some clues and Points might be Helpful. and it was as before.Anyhow I GOT a lot from you and other friends in the forum and am trying to GIVE if I can. Until the time I am experienced enough I will try to Help the forum and myself with better questions...

Best Reagrds
Prince
 
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