HMI's, recommendatons please

I am looking for recommendations for good HMI screens.
Not necessarily ease of programming (although that is a factor) but ease of use for the none technical operator.
(I struggled with the words for a ‘none technical operator’)

I have used Biejers E series HMI’s for years and I suppose you always like to go with what you know. But a little voice has been growing louder in my mind telling me they are ****.

Don’t get me wrong, they are easy to program and have some good features and I have never had a problem with this part.
In fact the higher end E Series HMI’s (colour touch screens) are not included in this debate, but these are very expensive and so are rarely fitted.

I have found though, that anything less than the high end ones are extremely confusing to the operator and it is not their fault.

This came to a head last week when I went to a job that had a E 600 fitted (not a job done by me) and all they wanted were a few timers and counters changing.
The programming and layout of the screens was very poor and it took me an age to find the page that had the timers that needed to be changed..
If these screens had been programmed better and the HMI not been so confusing to the operator, they would not have needed to call me. The timers and counters were on a page hidden away. (Not hidden away purposely, just very hard to find)

Now, I have always programmed PLC’s and HMI’s with the SWAN concept. (This is not an acronym) ‘All serene and beautiful on the surface but legs pumping like billyo under the water.’

These HMI’s have two rows of LED’s that you can change colour (red/green) and blink at varying rates (But I have yet to find a very good use for them)
They have a clear window under or over each LED that you can put a decal behind of your own writing BUT, it is these that confuse the operator. They look like the decals are for the buttons.

Some buttons run alongside the screen and their function changes with each screen, but these buttons run past the screen and have to be marked with a decal and made global.

Here is a link to their website E-Terminals

I could go on but the point is I am fast going off them.
On the above job, the operators and supervisors never even knew that this timers page existed.
They were afraid of navigating the screens, they had tried many times and got lost (you know that feeling, turn back or go on?)

So guys, I need some good recommendations for HMI’s that are simple for the operator.

The main one being buttons that can not be mistaken (right at the side of the screen with the function next to it on screen)
The enter key (when changing numbers) clearly marked like an ‘enter’ key
A ‘main screen’ key clearly marked for when they get lost. And, drivers for Mitsubishi plc’s.

Wot yer got?

With all due respect, I can search the WWW myself. I need personal recomendations with pro's & cons.

Thankyou.

Goody I have had good success with Siemens HMI but have never used them with anything but Siemens PLC, the software and configuration is fairly straightforward and if used with Siemens Step 7 they can be combined to create one file for a project. The OP7 (not a touchscreen) is simple enough that our operators have no problem understanding them.
OP7 Manual
This link is to the many different models.
Siemens HMI

Another brand we have several older models of that are easy to use is:
http://www.maple-systems.com/index_welcome.htm

Tom and many others on here talk about Exor alot, I havent had the opportunity to use them yet but would like to try one:
http://www.exor-rd.com/Products/HMIPanels/

Aside from Panelview, which is OK but I doubt you want to deal with that is all I can offer.

I seem to recall from previous posts that you are a Mitsubishi PLC fan. What is wrong with their GOT's? Other than the expense, I have been quite happy with my projects utilizing them.

Cutler-Hammer's PanelMate and GE Fanuc's Quick Panel line have drivers for all major PLC brands. My personal opinion is that PanelMate is the more user-friendly of the two, at least as far as creating screens is concerned.

AB's Panel View only communicates with AB PLCs.

Moeller MV4 are good quality and have drivers for alot of other manufacturers. Screen clairity is good and the software is easy to use and its inexspensive.

I have used a few HMI's a couple from Allen Bradley, a few of Mistubushi's and lot from Siemens, most of the time I find it easier to use the same manufacture for the plc and HMI, saves expense on drivers and makes programming and therefore maintenance easier.

Siemens TP170B Touchscreen panel is a good starter, I would stay clear of the op3 to 17. the op270 is a good model the higher end models are better still but you then need more expensive sofware...

Scada systems are the way to go on all but basic systems, HMI can be cheap at first but end up costing money if you want to expand.

Regards

Barry

Goody,
It's kind of interesting that I was in the same situation as you are in a while back. I was using the E615 on some of my projects and found it hard to layout, so the operator didn't have to navigate through many screens. Now, these don't have the "function" keys on them, as they are touch screens. On the old GOT series I used to make my own labels, labeling each key: Main Menu, Fault Reset etc. I started using the touch screens to get away from these annoying function keys. The problem when I went to the E series touch screens was that the E615, "which came with a hefty price", the screen was too small to get to the more frequently accessed info. To Mitsubishi's defense, they do make I think a 10" screen and the E615 has a 5.7" screen. I thought I would use the 10" screen for my next project, but after receiving the price quote there was no way we could afford to start using it. I think it was around $3000.00.

Excuse the rambling. I think Mitsubishi made a critical error in offering the E615 with a 5.7" screen and their next size is a 10.4", which is there E900 series. With the size difference the price double's to a very expensive operator interface. I wish they had made something in between like a 7" to keep the price down which would give you a little more screen space.

We found that the operators didn't like trying to push the touch buttons on such a small screen and they didn't like navigating for commonly used items. We now use Hakko V6 and V7 series touch screens. The V6 has a 7.7" screen and their prices are very affordable. I've used about 20 to 30 of these so far with all Mitsubishi Plc's. Mitsubishi as of now is the only Plc I have used with these touch screens.

It has a manual and a tutorial that uses Mitsubishi Plc's as most of the programming examples. The programming software was easy for me to adapt to. I actually believe its much more versatile then the E designer. The only draw back is it doesn't have a transparent mode, which will allow you to program the plc with the touch screen still hooked up. The have a fix for this and its called a V-MDD. They sell this specifically for Mitsubishi plc’s, which expands the connector port into two. I know you mentioned the global function keys and if this is a must then I might not be much help. I have distanced myself from them. ALRIGHT, ENOUGH RAMBLING
Tim

I have had good luck with the Exor line, as mentioned above. They have lots of drivers and easy to use software. We've used them with AutomationDirect, GE, A-B, Cutler Hammer, and Modicon PLCs. They are still a good value.

On my next project I am going to try the GE QuickPanel (old TCP line) partly because of better pricing, but mostly because of delivery and sales support issues with Exor onmy last order. (They recently moved from Florida back to Ohio and I think they lost a couple of people).

I loathe the A-B PanelView - pricey, software a pain, limited functions, lousy documentation, marginal support.

I like the Cutler Hammer PanelMate - I have only used the touch screen series. However, their a little more expensive, and don't have as many protocols as I'd like.

I avoid the old Optimate from AutomatinDirect like the plague. I haven't used the new AGV brand labeled ones from them.

For ease of use, the Cutler Hammer Panelmate is easy to set up and easy to use. However customizing the look and feel to an operator is not real practical. I have used VB with opc or activeX to do my own interfaces with the look and feel to the operator limited only by my imagination and amount of time I have to work on it. Automated Solutions OCX is easy to use. Others like Citech, Siemens, make opc or OCX software drivers. VB is not for everyone, but you did not say simple development was a criteria. With VB, you can later add part file selection when production adds that to the wish list of their new operator interface. Of course this is dependent on having a pc available to begin with.

Some scada software you can try .
We have use "Wizcon and Citect in our's Mechatronics lab to control
Process station.


Platootod

Thankyou all for the good unbiased opinions and for the reply that coincided with my experience.

I have sent some emails off to the various suppliers and vendors for prices and information.

I might get to play with some new toys now.

SIEMENS OP7 - Need a help

How to enter OP7 system menu? There is no way to find it in relevant manuals.
After stratup and self-diagnostic test, OP7 shows an initial screen (displaying company logo of machine producer). I need to Upload a configuration (OP7 to PC) but there is no way to establish communication. Somebody help me?

Homer:

If the system screens were not downloaded to the OP7 initially, they aren't available. Additionally, it's not possible to upload to the PC from the OP7. If the original programmer didn't make provision in the configuration to switch to download mode, you'll need to do a factory reset which will clear the memory and prepare the panel for downloading.