What makes you an engineer?
- Thread starter Pierre
- Start date
DickDV
Member
I hope they didn't spend any money for this survey. The conclusions were reported at least 30 years ago when I first became an engineering manager with a national company (with only a two year degree then and the same now).
That's also why engineers often have trouble moving to sales positions.
That's also why engineers often have trouble moving to sales positions.
Terry Woods
Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 3,170
Yeah... I can believe genetics... we are, after all, nothing more than bags of chemicals that are governed by those strange things called DNA.
Wow... what a question Pierre... I'm gonna have to do some "Deep-Thought" kinda stuff on this.
I'll be back... MGD? Welllll.... maybe.
Later man.
Wow... what a question Pierre... I'm gonna have to do some "Deep-Thought" kinda stuff on this.
I'll be back... MGD? Welllll.... maybe.
Later man.
Rick Densing
Member
The Geek Syndrome
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Thomas Sullens
Member
COULD THIS BE THE REASON YOU`LL ARE ALL SO STRANGE???
That use to mean at least a 12 pack! Come to think of it must ah been about 10 years since i`ve had a "Deep-Thought" .
gimmephone
Member
One who tries to replicate a human brain using a PLC is a true controls engineer
.....or maybe just stupid
.....or maybe just stupid
Terry Woods
Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 3,170
OK... "Deep Thought" realized...
"RAMBLE ALERT! - RAMBLE ALERT!"
I totally agree with the idea that one's professional prediliction is... "in the genes".
We all are not much more than bags of chemicals. Those chemicals do what they do, interact as they interact, and the result is... us, whatever that means.
(Stephen... let it go. Otherwise you'll only be further proving that you are a "fatalist".)
I wonder how many people have considered how thin is the line between sanity and insanity. Schitzophrenia? Paranoia? Absolute Nutso?
Have you ever worked on the light fixture over a tank of Acetone, in a closed room?
Paranoia is but a few breaths away!
All it takes is just a slight chemical imbalance. That imbalance might be bred into your genes, or it can exist in your current environment. In some temporary cases, sanity can be restored with nothing more than fresh air. In some bred cases (genes), sanity is restored by simply correcting the particular chemical imbalance... one-pill-a-day. WOW! Imagine that!
However, in other cases... the imbalance might be too severe, or simply not understood. In either case, the imbalance is not manageable.
Damn... those poor folks. I'm sure many of you have a relative, near or distant, in that condition, as do I.
With respect to the Autism issue...
I know that the incidence of Autism, and related syndromes, has increased 10-fold over the last generation!
Now this might be because the syndrome is infact occurring more often, or it could be that the tools for detecting the syndrome have improved, in which case the current level has always existed,... or perhaps, I don't think so, but perhaps, there is an excessive amount of "false-positives" from the so-called "improved" tools.
I think there are indeed more cases occurring. Have you paid attention to the pedestrians at the street corners, and the riders waiting at the bus-stops?
Referring back to the article, is that because the previous generation was more inclined to be Engineers?
I don't think so. If anything, I suspect that those Engineers were/are living in the New Chemical World of DuPont, et al.
WARNING! The following is over-the-edge... maybe.
Consider this... Rainmen... a complete work-force made up of Rainmen.
All indications are that a Rainman doesn't really care about financial income or his future. He only wants his grilled Ham & Cheese at 12:02 PM, 12:02 PM, 12:02 PM, and his underware from K-Mart, K-Mart, K-Mart... but, that's it! He doesn't care about retirement, doesn't care about Medical Benefits (unless he has a tooth-ache, or some-such, at which point, he of course becomes expendable - foder?)... he's a Live-for-the-Moment kinda guy!
Charlie Chaplin, waaaay back when, made a movie called "Modern Times". That movie predated George Orwell's "1984" by many years.
George Orwell was exploring the psychological aspects of the "MACHINE" (the power-machine, whatever that power might be, political, corporate, whatever) on the ordinary person and his sense of "self", and his sense of right and wrong, in terms of others.
Charlie was exploring the effect of the COMPANY, and it's attitude, on the individual working man. He, Charlie, was only one of the men "on-the-line" that helped to produce the wealth for the company. The bottom line is... the Company took him in... paid him dirt... chewed him up... and spit him out.
Gee... could it possibly be that there might be some folks out there that might actually think that this apparent increase in Autism might actually be a good thing... for them? ("Them" being the "folks", not the Autistics.)
Gee... a work-force that doesn't care about there own welfare and future.
At this point... I'm just gonna leave this open for... whatever.
Back on Topic...
According to the Table at the end of the article, I'm a Level-4 Systemizer (of 1 to 8). I wouldn't mind being a Level-5... too much... but I sure don't think I would want to be higher than that (my wife is a Level-5). Going beyond Level-5 would be way too... uuuhhh... way too... "Rainman", yeah, way too "Rainman" for my tastes. (K-MART! Gotta go to K-MART! K-MART!)
Bein' a Rainman might be great for "countin' cards", but what would be the point if you don't care if you don't get something REAL, in terms of self-security, for having done it?
From the article...
"But if your engineering job requires you to have interpersonal skills, will you always be fighting your genes? People can be trained to interact in a poised and more seemingly relaxed manner, Gott-fredson said, but for certain people it will never "come naturally. A lot of engineers . . . will have to learn those skills" through management training."
I found a site, about a year ago, that offers a wide variety of tests that you can take to get an indication of your personal and professional (career) proclivities.
http://www.Tickle.com
The site indicates that there is a charge for taking the tests... however, I've never received a billing.
Having taken all of the personality and professional tests, including an I.Q. test (my I.Q. still comes in at the same level as it did, at the University of Chicago, over 30-years ago, also the same as my Cholesterol level... 140) I was more than impressed. Without them asking anything about my career, or my personal habits, the test results described me, and my current professional situation, to a "T". I wonder if I could use those results as part of my resume.
All I know is... as long as I keep doing what the voices say... no one gets hurt!
"RAMBLE ALERT! - RAMBLE ALERT!"
I totally agree with the idea that one's professional prediliction is... "in the genes".
We all are not much more than bags of chemicals. Those chemicals do what they do, interact as they interact, and the result is... us, whatever that means.
(Stephen... let it go. Otherwise you'll only be further proving that you are a "fatalist".)
I wonder how many people have considered how thin is the line between sanity and insanity. Schitzophrenia? Paranoia? Absolute Nutso?
Have you ever worked on the light fixture over a tank of Acetone, in a closed room?
Paranoia is but a few breaths away!
All it takes is just a slight chemical imbalance. That imbalance might be bred into your genes, or it can exist in your current environment. In some temporary cases, sanity can be restored with nothing more than fresh air. In some bred cases (genes), sanity is restored by simply correcting the particular chemical imbalance... one-pill-a-day. WOW! Imagine that!
However, in other cases... the imbalance might be too severe, or simply not understood. In either case, the imbalance is not manageable.
Damn... those poor folks. I'm sure many of you have a relative, near or distant, in that condition, as do I.
With respect to the Autism issue...
I know that the incidence of Autism, and related syndromes, has increased 10-fold over the last generation!
Now this might be because the syndrome is infact occurring more often, or it could be that the tools for detecting the syndrome have improved, in which case the current level has always existed,... or perhaps, I don't think so, but perhaps, there is an excessive amount of "false-positives" from the so-called "improved" tools.
I think there are indeed more cases occurring. Have you paid attention to the pedestrians at the street corners, and the riders waiting at the bus-stops?
Referring back to the article, is that because the previous generation was more inclined to be Engineers?
I don't think so. If anything, I suspect that those Engineers were/are living in the New Chemical World of DuPont, et al.
WARNING! The following is over-the-edge... maybe.
Consider this... Rainmen... a complete work-force made up of Rainmen.
All indications are that a Rainman doesn't really care about financial income or his future. He only wants his grilled Ham & Cheese at 12:02 PM, 12:02 PM, 12:02 PM, and his underware from K-Mart, K-Mart, K-Mart... but, that's it! He doesn't care about retirement, doesn't care about Medical Benefits (unless he has a tooth-ache, or some-such, at which point, he of course becomes expendable - foder?)... he's a Live-for-the-Moment kinda guy!
Charlie Chaplin, waaaay back when, made a movie called "Modern Times". That movie predated George Orwell's "1984" by many years.
George Orwell was exploring the psychological aspects of the "MACHINE" (the power-machine, whatever that power might be, political, corporate, whatever) on the ordinary person and his sense of "self", and his sense of right and wrong, in terms of others.
Charlie was exploring the effect of the COMPANY, and it's attitude, on the individual working man. He, Charlie, was only one of the men "on-the-line" that helped to produce the wealth for the company. The bottom line is... the Company took him in... paid him dirt... chewed him up... and spit him out.
Gee... could it possibly be that there might be some folks out there that might actually think that this apparent increase in Autism might actually be a good thing... for them? ("Them" being the "folks", not the Autistics.)
Gee... a work-force that doesn't care about there own welfare and future.
At this point... I'm just gonna leave this open for... whatever.
Back on Topic...
According to the Table at the end of the article, I'm a Level-4 Systemizer (of 1 to 8). I wouldn't mind being a Level-5... too much... but I sure don't think I would want to be higher than that (my wife is a Level-5). Going beyond Level-5 would be way too... uuuhhh... way too... "Rainman", yeah, way too "Rainman" for my tastes. (K-MART! Gotta go to K-MART! K-MART!)
Bein' a Rainman might be great for "countin' cards", but what would be the point if you don't care if you don't get something REAL, in terms of self-security, for having done it?
From the article...
"But if your engineering job requires you to have interpersonal skills, will you always be fighting your genes? People can be trained to interact in a poised and more seemingly relaxed manner, Gott-fredson said, but for certain people it will never "come naturally. A lot of engineers . . . will have to learn those skills" through management training."
I found a site, about a year ago, that offers a wide variety of tests that you can take to get an indication of your personal and professional (career) proclivities.
http://www.Tickle.com
The site indicates that there is a charge for taking the tests... however, I've never received a billing.
Having taken all of the personality and professional tests, including an I.Q. test (my I.Q. still comes in at the same level as it did, at the University of Chicago, over 30-years ago, also the same as my Cholesterol level... 140) I was more than impressed. Without them asking anything about my career, or my personal habits, the test results described me, and my current professional situation, to a "T". I wonder if I could use those results as part of my resume.
All I know is... as long as I keep doing what the voices say... no one gets hurt!
tom_stalcup
Lifetime Supporting Member
This brings something to mind I ran into a while back.... I looked up some article on Adult ADHD, and figured out they were describing me... Personal habits, work habits, problem relationships, EVERYTHING. All of the things they talk about being "typical" for someone with ADHD I have...
So... Am I going to seek "treatment" of some kind?
Heck No... At this point in my life I'm pretty okay with me and who I am...
But... In reading thru THIS page, I wonder sometimes...
I already do most of the things recommended in the PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT and the MOOD MANAGEMENT section... And I have for years....
1. Am I doing them because I have ADHD? And that's how I'm compensating for it?
2. Or am I simply doing them because it's the best way to do things?
I'm more inclined for answer number two..... But I guess only time can tell....
So... Am I going to seek "treatment" of some kind?
Heck No... At this point in my life I'm pretty okay with me and who I am...
But... In reading thru THIS page, I wonder sometimes...
I already do most of the things recommended in the PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT and the MOOD MANAGEMENT section... And I have for years....
1. Am I doing them because I have ADHD? And that's how I'm compensating for it?
2. Or am I simply doing them because it's the best way to do things?
I'm more inclined for answer number two..... But I guess only time can tell....
I have a child with autism.
ADHD and autism are very different.
And yes all the male parents of the children with autism we know are techinically inclined or have autistic traits.
Dont for a minute think autism means automatically gifted as it certainly is quite unusual to find one who is. Our kids usually have "splinter skills" which enables to be very good at some things, but usually below average at everything else.
ADHD and autism are very different.
And yes all the male parents of the children with autism we know are techinically inclined or have autistic traits.
Dont for a minute think autism means automatically gifted as it certainly is quite unusual to find one who is. Our kids usually have "splinter skills" which enables to be very good at some things, but usually below average at everything else.
Last edited:
tom_stalcup
Lifetime Supporting Member
Sorry... Didn't mean to imply that they were. I definitely know that. I was just going along with the lines of "what makes people engineers", and not necessarily following Terry's rant line...
Terry Woods
Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Posts
- 3,170
Says you, AndrewB.
in my experinace yes.
I do have a lot of involvement with both kids. Since our sons diagnosis 4 years ago our familys world revolves around it.
Another intersting thing:
I live in a small city of around 30,000ppl. There where no diagnosis's of autism between 92-2000. Why? No pediatrician. No psyc services. Massive waiting lists with the autism assoc. for assesments! funnily enough the waiting lists (where up to 2 years) where cleared early this year. I cant speak for anywhere else, but suddenly there is a heap of positive diagnosis.
I do have a lot of involvement with both kids. Since our sons diagnosis 4 years ago our familys world revolves around it.
Another intersting thing:
I live in a small city of around 30,000ppl. There where no diagnosis's of autism between 92-2000. Why? No pediatrician. No psyc services. Massive waiting lists with the autism assoc. for assesments! funnily enough the waiting lists (where up to 2 years) where cleared early this year. I cant speak for anywhere else, but suddenly there is a heap of positive diagnosis.
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heres a link if anyone if interested in factual information
http://www.autismsa.org.au/html/disorders/asd_intro.html
http://www.autismsa.org.au/html/disorders/asd_intro.html
rsdoran
Lifetime Supporting Member
Terry, are you just trying to stir up the water? You are far too interested in things like Psychology etc not to know the differences in diagnosing mental/developmental disorders today compared to 20 or more years ago.
Considering that some societies, throught history, would take "abnormal" children and leave them on a hillside or ... mental disorders were diagnosed to a point but attempting to help with those disorders has only been attempted in the last couple of centuries.
You know that medical science, including psychology, is still in its infancy so more is/can be done today, better, than it was in the past.
I would say that since population increases each year and since other factors, besides genetics, could also introduce a fetus to developmental issues that their may be more mental disorders, including autism, today then there was in the past.
I, too, have children with disorders so have had to learn more on these subjects. Another site concerning Autism is here;
http://www.autism.org/adviceforparents.html
Considering that some societies, throught history, would take "abnormal" children and leave them on a hillside or ... mental disorders were diagnosed to a point but attempting to help with those disorders has only been attempted in the last couple of centuries.
You know that medical science, including psychology, is still in its infancy so more is/can be done today, better, than it was in the past.
I would say that since population increases each year and since other factors, besides genetics, could also introduce a fetus to developmental issues that their may be more mental disorders, including autism, today then there was in the past.
I, too, have children with disorders so have had to learn more on these subjects. Another site concerning Autism is here;
http://www.autism.org/adviceforparents.html
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