Running 300 volt rated Devicenet cables with 600 Volt power wiring

metal_pro

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Oct 2005
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What are the CSA/UL requirements when you have to run Devicenet Cables within the same Wireway as 600 Volt motor powerwires.
I was under the impression that the Devicenet cable would have to be also rated at 600 volt and not 300 volt?
Do not all wires within the wireway have to be rated for the highest voltage or physically sergregated from circuits of different voltages?
Does anyone know what section of the code covers this?
We just recieved a Square D Motor Control Center with Devicenet and Ethernet devices and both cables are in the same wireway as the power wiring. The salseman told me the devicenet cable is rated for 600 Volts but the connectors only have a 300 Volt rating
 
So after reading NEC 300.3(C)(1) I would say that because the cable connectors are only rated for 300 VAC they (Square D) are not building MCC compliant with the code. hmmmmm ?
 
The connectors are not located in the 600 volt wireway but in each MCC compartment, so do not have to be rated for 600 volts (just as the control components running at 120 volts in the motor starters do not have to be rated for 600 volts). There is no point in using 600 volt connectors as the Devicenet voltage is much lower.
 
I encountered a Square-D MCC with "Motor Logic Plus" overloads in it today. The EDS files were easy enough to find, but the only user manual I could find was for a "Motor Logic Plus II", dated July 2006. I can find user manuals for the overload itself, and a manual for the Modbus interface, but not for the "9999DN" interface itself (outside an ODVA conformance test document and a three-language installation document.)

The wiring in this MCC is to the left of a separator plate in the wireway, but it's thin-net cable with 250V insulation and Brad-Harrison micro quick-disconnect tees and 1-foot cordsets making up the trunk.

The overloads are labeled "Motor Logic Plus 9065-SP14 6.0 - 27.0 A, Ser B". In RSNetworx the DeviceNet interface shows up as Device Type 3 (overload), part number 9999DN, version 1.001.

After and hour of checking and re-checking the I/O connection and mapping, I turned to the customer and said "I guess this is going to take longer than I thought; most DeviceNet stuff I can get going very quickly."

"Don't feel bad," they said. "We've been trying to get them to run for four weeks."

So: Is anyone out there using Square-D MLP's with this 9999DN interface on DeviceNet ?
 
metal_pro said:
What are the CSA/UL requirements when you have to run Devicenet Cables within the same Wireway as 600 Volt motor powerwires.
I was under the impression that the Devicenet cable would have to be also rated at 600 volt and not 300 volt?
Do not all wires within the wireway have to be rated for the highest voltage or physically sergregated from circuits of different voltages?
Does anyone know what section of the code covers this?
We just recieved a Square D Motor Control Center with Devicenet and Ethernet devices and both cables are in the same wireway as the power wiring. The salseman told me the devicenet cable is rated for 600 Volts but the connectors only have a 300 Volt rating

Quick and dirty answer is you are right..All conductors in a wireway must be rated to the highest voltage in the wireway..(Its been a while but i think its section 12 general wiring methods..)

D
 
Lancie1 said:
The connectors are not located in the 600 volt wireway but in each MCC compartment, so do not have to be rated for 600 volts (just as the control components running at 120 volts in the motor starters do not have to be rated for 600 volts). There is no point in using 600 volt connectors as the Devicenet voltage is much lower.
Lancie1
The 120 volt control wiring in the bucket has to be rated for 600 Volts also as I understand the code
 
These are "Motor Logic Plus" with the 9999DN interface module. I asked Square-D for help and they sent me the user manual for the "Motor Logic Plus II" with 9999DN2 interface. I don't think these are equivalent devices.

Type 9065 SPxx is the overload itself. The 9999DN has firmware version 1.001.

I'm sending a Start command in Bit 0 of the 1-byte output command, but the contactor isn't pulling in. I am 99% sure I have the wiring right, but will check again.

It's as though the "DeviceNet Program" is disabled, but there isn't a parameter I can find in the EDS that applies to it.
 
Ken Roach said:
These are "Motor Logic Plus" with the 9999DN interface module. I asked Square-D for help and they sent me the user manual for the "Motor Logic Plus II" with 9999DN2 interface. I don't think these are equivalent devices.

Type 9065 SPxx is the overload itself. The 9999DN has firmware version 1.001.

I'm sending a Start command in Bit 0 of the 1-byte output command, but the contactor isn't pulling in. I am 99% sure I have the wiring right, but will check again.

It's as though the "DeviceNet Program" is disabled, but there isn't a parameter I can find in the EDS that applies to it.
The programer I work with said that he should check his output assembly word. It is parameter 49. If he looks on pg 98 it tell him the output assemble combinations. I use 105 because it has both outputs and the fault reset. He may have the value 2 in that word or something that is not supported. Just put 105 in that word and be done with it. Aside from that it would be that the devicenet scanner is not in run mode or the configuration is not downloaded to the scanner properly or mapping is wrong. Most likely though its the output assembly word.
 
Thanks, metal_pro, for the response. I'm glad to hear somebody has a closely related product running, because I'm whiffing on this one.

The devices my customer has are the original "Motor Logic Plus" with the 9999DN, not the "Motor Logic Plus II" with the 9999DN2.

I am using Assembly 105 as the Output Assembly. Good point about Assembly 2; it only has the Fault Reset bit in it.

I am absolutely certain that I have the I/O mapped correctly; I am very experienced with DeviceNet and I even ran a protocol analyzer to be sure that the correct data sizes and connections were being sent from the Allen-Bradley 1756-DNB scanner.

I requested help from Square-D technical support and received two PDF copies of the 30072-451-21 MLPII programming manual. I'll ask by publication number for the original 30072-450-96 MLP programming manual (the two pub numbers are found in an Installation sheet, but the original one doesn't appear to be available on the Square-D website).

I have found eight different parameters and functions in the EDS file and device firmware that return invalid responses when you actually query the MLP over DeviceNet. Either the EDS on the website is incorrect or this firmware is not their production firmware.

Even when I set the configurable input assembly to read three-phase voltages in the feedback, the data returned to the controller (verified by the protocol analyzer) are all zeroes. It's as though the "network program" is disabled.

I'll take this issue directly to the manufacturer now.
 
This is the explanation I got from the MCC Supplier

NEC section 300.3(C)(1) applies to premises wiring, not to the integral wiring of motor control centers. Please see the attached NEC definition of premises wiring, and NEC section 300.1(B).

Thus 300.3(C)(1) applies to the wiring methods used to install electrical equipment; hence field conduits external to the MCC must not have conductors of different voltage ratings. Partly that is to ensure a contractor does not inadvertently connect a 300V-rated power cable, mixed in a conduit with 600V-rated cables, to a 600V source. It does not mean that communication cables inside the MCC have to be rated 600V.

The harmonized standard, UL 845/CSA C22.2 No. 254-05 (Motor Control Centers), and CSA standard C22.2 No. 14-05 (Industrial Control Equipment), do not require communication cable or connectors to be rated 600V where they are not exposed to any live 600V terminals or bus within the MCC.

The communication connector is rated 300V, but does not touch any live parts in the MCC, so it is fine as is.
 
I do not have time to go into details but someone is misinformed. It does not matter what kind of cable is run in a wireway (or panel for that matter), the voltage rating must match the highest voltage involved. The exact wording is " Where the conductors are run with or adjacent to other conductors, all conductors shall have insulation rated for the maximum voltage involved."

That said, any connectors involved must also be rated at the voltage of the wiring involved. It does not matter whether the max voltage will ever be applied to that wiring or not.

It would not make sense, at least to me, to use 600v rated wire with 300v rated connectors, defeats the safety purposes this is suppose to accomplish.

It is possible to "group" devices, isolate control voltage (<150v) etc from supply voltages (>150v) and not have to use supply voltage rated wire. This means control, comm wires etc would have to be run independent though.

I guess y'all can interpret it anyway you want though but in the example using Article 300 I do not see where it states "This is just for premise wiring and industrial applications are exempt."
 
I'm still confused

they said 300.1 (B) covers the premise part


I. General Requirements
300.1 Scope.
(A) All Wiring Installations. This article covers wiring
methods for all wiring installations unless modified by
other articles.
(B) Integral Parts of Equipment. The provisions of this
article are not intended to apply to the conductors that form
an integral part of equipment, such as motors, controllers,
motor control centers, or factory assembled control equipment
or listed utilization equipment.
Exception: Individual conductors shall be permitted
where installed as separate overhead conductors in accordance
with 225.6.
 

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