Ultra 3000 w/ DeviceNet

Hi, does anybody have any programming examples, or maybe some useful insight on Ultra3000 servo drives with DeviceNet. All our distributer had for us is a shiny document that basically confirmed that it did exist


What we want to do is use a Compact Logix to control a ultra 3000 with DeviceNet. Normally we use control logix with a servo card. Do you have access to the command position, and position error VIA DeviceNet or are you stuck just indexing?

thanks for any help

I have 2 3000's just sitting in a cabinet doing nothing, tried to get them used in a rewinder (which is what they were used for before).

I am at home now but do have the program showing them used as a rewinder. I dont understand the issue fully. Whether serial, devicenet etc, if its has that feature then all functions of the drive can be accessed/written to/read from the device.

I dont know how Contrologix does read/writes to devices so cant help there. I hope someone can offer something on the subject. I wouldnt think that the programming would be any different from any other system, the only thing different is the communication protocol.

DeviceNet isn't meant to provide the same kind of time synchronization and motion profile planning as the Logix backplane does; no general-purpose network is fast enough for that. SERCOS is the only way to put the feedback at the drive but control co-ordinated axes via the Logix motion instructions.

The Ultra 3000 drives with DeviceNet are usually the Ultra 3000i Indexing versions, though there are also non-Indexing Ultra 3000 drives that pretty much just do setup and monitoring via DNet, not command and control.

You can read and write nearly every object in the drive's parameter list via an I/O table "Parameter Pointer", without using explicit messaging.

That's good if you're looking at CompactLogix, because the L20 and L30 controllers don't support backplane messaging. I know that's planned for the upcoming L35, L32, and L31 controllers, but those aren't coming until April or so.

I've done a few indexing applications via DeviceNet with SLC, ControlLogix, and MicroLogix 1500 controllers. What do you need the Ultra 3000 drives to do ?

Ken, when you say the new compactlogix controllers support backplane messaging, does that mean that a controlnet bridge module will be available for this processor system.
Regards Alan Case

CompactLogix and 1769-SDN

I think the 1769-SDN is a great little module, but I prefer it's implementation with the MicroLogix 1500 to the way it works with CompactLogix L20 and L30 for two reasons.

1. I/O memory. The total number of I/O words available on the L20 and L30 is really tiny; only 256 words, and they get gobbled up very fast by things like end cap checking and module status. On the MicroLogix 1500, the I/O memory is simpler and adding a single 1769-SDN doesn't tax the memory as much.

2. MSG instruction function. On the MicroLogix 1500 1764-LRP (not the -LSP), I can write a MSG instruction with a Service, Class, Instance, Attribute and Data through the 1769-SDN to a generic DeviceNet device. The module also performs a PCCC/DNet encapsulation similar to the Net-DNI, so I can go online with the MicroLogix 1500 over DeviceNet instead of over it's serial ports.

I can't do either of those things with CompactLogix 1769-L20 and -L30. They run I/O just fine, but they don't have the ability to send MSG instructions across the backplane to DeviceNet.

That's not an unpardonable sin in a tiny controller; these are meant to be OEM-level embedded controllers, not just tiny versions of ControlLogix. If you need motion control, use the big ControlLogix. If you need embedded, bridgeable communications on a small controller, use the FlexLogix.

CompactLogix may never have a ControlNet module. The new 1769-L35 will have onboard EtherNet/IP, and a lot of OEMs are looking forward to that. I am looking forward to having MSG instructions that can go out onto DNet to allow me to set and retrieve object information from drives, photoeyes, motor starters, etc. I've been promised this function in the 1769-L35, as well as in the enhanced non-Ethernet CompactLogix controllers, the L31 and L32.

Steve,

Honest, this isn't RTFM, more like "Read *this* portion of the FM".

If you're trying to get your head around what the Ultra3000 and 3000i with DeviceNet will *do* over the network, there are two places to look.

1. The Parameter Editor in RSNetworx for DeviceNet. Pop open an instance of RSNetworx and look for the Ultra3000's under "Rockwell Automation Miscellaneous". Any parameter you see in the Parameter List is accessible using explicit messaging. Most of them are also accessible using a parameter access feature of the I/O connection. Which brings us to....

2. The User Manual for the DeviceNet option.

http://www.ab.com/manuals/gmc/2098-RM004A-EN-P-AUG02.pdf

My copy has pages 2-15, 2-25, and 2-33 dog-eared for quick reference. Take a long look through Chapter 2 of that reference manual and see if the capabilities of the motion controller are more clear afterwards.

Again, the most essential thing to understand is that the motion planner and motion instructions in the Logix are not running these drives, and the position loop isn't being closed over the network. The drives are meant to run themselves and give status data over the network, and to replace discrete I/O onboard the drive with networked I/O data.

Thanks Ken... I actually did find the manual shortly after I posted the message, I think most of my questions are answered. The only thing im not concrete about is that you are able to change the preset positions on the fly? From my understanding parameter object instance 304, 308, 312 ect... will do that for me?

The servo will require different sets of positions for different setups

thanks again

Yes, by using one of the Output Assemblies that supports a Parameter Write, you can change the Count value of a Preset Position or Index "on the fly". Output Assembly 5 lets you get to everything you need for presets, by addressing them by their single-byte "command data pointer" instead of by a "parameter object instance". Output Assembly 9 lets you go whole hog and address them directly by their parameter object instnace number.

I think the only restriction is that you can't change a value for one that is literally currently active... you can move the finish line between races, but not during the race. I don't know if the logic will return a Write Error bit or if it will simply apply the change at the end of the index or when you move to a different preset. We can find out if it's important to your application.

What do you need the drive to do... go to specific locations (presets) or perform specific moves (indexes) ?

goto specific positions, that will be adjustable through the panelview, but we wont need to be making them during the actual move! I think that basically answers all my questions, thanks alot for you help!

because the L20 and L30 controllers don't support backplane messaging. I know that's planned for the upcoming L35, L32, and L31 controllers, but those aren't coming until April or so.

Click to expand...

Hey Ken, will we still be seeing those out soon?? My work is pretty horny for the L35.

And just to make sure I have this correct, will the L35 be able to bridge across its embedded ethernet port, and get onto DeviceNet (via a 1769-SDN devicenet scanner)??

And yet another questions. I just completed a project with a L30 processor, and to upload/download stuff to DeviceNet i had to use a control logix chassis/DNET card we had kicking around. Our distributer wanted to sell us a 1770-KFD for $1100 canadian (a few hundred dollars more than the L30 processor), is there a more cost effective solution for this?

New product releases are excruciating for me.... I checked tonight with a manager and he says the first external beta release of L35's is going out next week, so we're definitely not looking at April for the L35. Believe me, you're not the only ones jonesing for these little controllers.

I know I can do all the things you want to today with a 1788-DNBO and a FLEXLogix. But I'm jumpy as heck promising functionality that I haven't seen in person.

That price differential between the 1769-SDN and the 1770-KFD is probably the reason there isn't a 1769-based DeviceNet Starter Kit. Usually that's how I encourage people to begin, because of the good discount you get on the 1770-KFD.

I myself use the 1784-PCD card, because it supports the DeviceNet Traffic Analyzer software that I use extensively for protocol troubleshooting and performance analysis. But then, I use DeviceNet every single day so I can justify the expense.

anybody still interested in the L35's

For anybody still interested in the L35's... heres an interesting link for ya

http://www.automationtechies.com/store/pid1473.php

So this morning, a salesman told me that he just received the first L35 beta for his OEM customer. He wants me to go camp out at their factory for a week to teach them how to use it.

I guess I'll have some info to contribute soon !

The ironic thing about it is, the week the processor comes out that I wanted to get my hands on is the same week I leave and wont be needing it anymore

Sounds like a hot little number though!

What kinds of problems should I expect to see trying to replace four 2098-DSD-HV030Xs with four 2098-DSD-HV030X-DNs in a system with an SLC 5/03 or 5/04? My Allen Bradley rep wants me to replace the SLC with a Controllogix, the four 2098-DSD HV030Xs with four sercos drives and get rid of my DH485 Panelview 600. But the thought of using Devicenet drives appeals to me because I believe that I could simply replace the drives, yank the Devicenet scanner out of the SLC chassis and load my old program at the end of the day if things are not working well. On the other hand, going Controllogix and replacing the PV600 would not only be expensive, but I would lose a lot of production ironing things out.

I have a ML1500 demo box and an Ultra 3000 demo to play with for about a week but the SLC is not going to have the capability of using long words like the ML. The AB rep said it isn't impossible (he thinks) but he doesn't know exactly how it would be done. I'm not in support for RSNetworx because I'm using the demo version so I don't expect any help from Rockwell.

Another reason that I would prefer to not go Controllogix is that we do not have any other Controllogix applications and buying RSLogix 5000 for this one machine is not too attractive.

Any tips for the SLC/Devicenet/Ultra combo?