Curious, Elevator logic

I stayed at a hotel on the weekend that appeared to have a glitch in the programming for the elevators (there were 4 in total).

The hotel was 25 floors, we were on the 24th. When getting on out of the lobby to go to our room for the first time we were in with another couple who were on the 11th floor. We punched 11 and 24 and the elevator went to eleven. After the doors closed the elevator went back down to M (with us still on it). The next guy that got on punched 16 and we pushed 24 again. This time we went to the 16th floor, when the doors opened our preselection of 24 dissappeared and we went to the bottom. Finally when no one got on we hit 24 again and got to our floor.

I figured there might be something wrong with the elevator so I told the front desk.

The next day the same thing happened, I made a comment to the couple that was in the elevator with us and he said "I stayed here 3 months ago and it did the same thing".

I know we have at least 1 elevator expert here. I can't figure out if there was something broken with it, if there was code in it to automatically come back down if someone on the main floor wanted to go up and we were only X floors away, or if the program was just plain flawed.

Nothing earth shattering, just curious.

Gee,

If I didn't know better.... a subject line with elevator in it always makes me think someone is fishing for homework help.

I would think this was a clever ruse if I didn't know the name of the poster and the help he has given me in the past.



Marc

Based on how you describe how this elevator worked, you have four options if you ever want to get to your room:

1) Don't get on the elevator with anyone who has a room on a lower floor than you.

2) Stay no higher than the second floor and let everyone else go through the problem you were facing.

3) Stay on the first floor and avoid the problem altogether. BONUS: Chances are the pool and the bar are on the first floor anyway...

4) Use the stairs.

I vote for #3, especially considering the bonus.

while we’re "sort of" on the subject of “elevator logic” here’s something that came up several years ago when I worked for a state technical college ... the “rules” said that each building was required to have a “fire drill” every once in awhile ... the building that I worked in had three floors - two sets of stairs - and one elevator ...



at the appointed time for the fire drill, the campus security guards would walk into the building and pull one of the fire alarm switches ... the horns would blow ... everyone was supposed to exit the building in a calm and orderly fashion ... great idea ... except for the poor guy on the third floor - sitting in a wheel chair ...



most people don’t know (or at least never think) about what happens to the elevators as soon as the fire alarm sounds ... the basic idea is that most (all?) elevators immediately go to the ground floor - and stay there - so that they’re available for the fire fighters to use ... (the firefighters are supposed to have a special key to reactivate the system) ... also, I’ve been told, that the elevators do this so that a cab full of passengers doesn’t stop on a floor that is engulfed in flames - and then automatically open its doors ...



now back to the guy in the wheelchair ... what happens to him? ... and this is big guy - at least 250 pounds ... and the wheelchair is one of those motorized models ... big batteries ... big motors ... etc. ...



questions: do we (instructors, students, whoever) pick the guy up out of the wheelchair and physically carry him down three flights of stairs? ... do we leave him sitting there on the third floor while everyone else exits the building? ... what if he doesn’t want to be picked up and carried? ... does he personally get to choose how we handle his situation? ... it’s just a “drill” after all ... what if we’re carrying him and he’s injured - or we drop him halfway down the stairs? ... whose liability insurance kicks in? ... I can just hear the guy’s lawyers talking in legal terms like “jointly and severally responsible” ...



reality check: now in a REAL emergency, ordinary people can do heroic things ... just as soon as we smell smoke, I can well envision that somehow - someway - we’re going to get that poor guy out of the building ... but we’re only talking about a regularly scheduled “drill” here - not an actual emergency ... the basic question is this: is it worth endangering his safety (and dignity) just to perform a regularly scheduled “drill”? ...



so what happens now? is there any official (government, insurance, etc.) policy? ... if anyone has a good idea, I know some people who would LOVE to know about it ... I haven’t worked there in years, but as far as I know, the basic question is still up in the air ...

In a Belgrade elevator:

To move the cabin, push button for wishing floor. If the cabin should enter more persons, each one should press a number of wishing floor. Driving is then going alphabetically by national order.

Click to expand...

Gerry said:

In a Belgrade elevator:

Click to expand...

Now thats funny there.

For more simailar threads:

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=106

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=22892&highlight

Jimmie_Ohio said:

Based on how you describe how this elevator worked, you have four options if you ever want to get to your room:

1) Don't get on the elevator with anyone who has a room on a lower floor than you.

2) Stay no higher than the second floor and let everyone else go through the problem you were facing.

3) Stay on the first floor and avoid the problem altogether. BONUS: Chances are the pool and the bar are on the first floor anyway...

4) Use the stairs.

Click to expand...

Option 1 could get nasty if someone tries to get in with you and you tell them to get out.

I am a smoker and therefore requested a smoking room, it seems like hotels are starting to put smoking floors higher and higher, at least when I request a smoking room I seem to always end up near the top. Which rules out options 2-4 (I don't think I could climb 24 flights of stairs).

Option 5 I guess would be to quit smoking Not even my wife came up with that one to fix the elevator problem and she's the one that figures world hunger would be eliminated if I didn't smoke:teacher:

Wrong elevator?

Maybe they were grouped. 2 for floors 0-11 and 2 for floors 12-25.

Ron,
That problem ocourred with my late wife. Had a motorized chair on the 7th floor, but not that much personal weight.
Two sturdy male volunteers would link hands to form a chair and were required to use the outside fire escape.
Luckily now one was injured and the company owned the whole building and moved her office to the ground floor.

All in all it was non-feasible.

I think I read somewhere that some companies were reguired to install a chute like comercial aircraft use. Bell rings and in ya go.

There is no good answer

Rod

Rod/Ron There is a good answer and you said it. Move the person to the 1st floor. ADA requires resonable accomodation and I don't think that giving a person who is limited by a wheelchair a location on the 1st floor as unreasonable. I know this is not feasable for everyone who is confined to a wheelchair, but in the instances of a school or similar situation, I would hope that this could be accomplished.As for instances where this cannot be accomplished, I hope (or wish) there is a good solution somewhere. I've never really thought of this, mainly because I've been lucky (blessed or whatever else you call it) enough to not have to experience that. I'm sure there are enough obstacles to overcome and worrying about getting out of a burning building should not be one of them.

Elevator / Fire Drill

Ron,
Sounds like someone had no idea what they were doing with the fire alarm connections / program. There are only a few events that should take place on an elevator during a fire alarm.

1. Smoke detector on main landing ELEVATOR LOBBY should send the car to an alternate floor.

2. Smoke detector on any other landing should send car to primary floor.

3. Heat detectors in hoistway should shunt trip the main breaker.

4. Smoke in hoistway will send car to main landing.


Now there are variations for this code in different cities but in NO WAY should general alarm recall car in any way.

There is something wrong with Elevator control. As per standard control logic of any Elevator is to execute the commands in sequence of landinding levels irrespective of going up or down. Then only it has to return if there is a command otherwise it will stayput in last landing level it has dropped the customers.

JasonG said:

Ron,
Sounds like someone had no idea what they were doing with the fire alarm connections / program. There are only a few events that should take place on an elevator during a fire alarm.

1. Smoke detector on main landing ELEVATOR LOBBY should send the car to an alternate floor.

2. Smoke detector on any other landing should send car to primary floor.

3. Heat detectors in hoistway should shunt trip the main breaker.

4. Smoke in hoistway will send car to main landing.


Now there are variations for this code in different cities but in NO WAY should general alarm recall car in any way.

Click to expand...

We must have different codes up here..

in a high rise building..(above 10 floors) ALL elevators must recall to ground floor UNLESS initiated from ground floor then it goes to altenate floor..The elevators then stay there untill used by fire dept..and then only with a FD key..and the normal rules of elevator control dont apply such as

if the FD push floor 3, the car will stop at floor 3..the doors will not open untill the guy in the elevator pushes the open door button..if he pushes the button and the door opens half way and he releases the button the doors will close and not open again untill the button inside the elevator is pushed..Now if the FD steps out of the elevator as soon as the doors start to open and no one stands there with his hand on the button..they are screwed..when the elevator is on Fire servive you MUST keep your finger on the button untill the doors are FULLY opened..only then can you take you finger off the button and exit..

as for the handicap..all high rise buildings are supposed to have a fire safety plan and in that plan there is the floor location of all wheel chair people..on a fire alarm the FD would go to these floors first and collect the handicap people..Thats why in a hotel they tell hadicap people to stay in there room..

as for the OP..Yep the control sounds screwed up..it should not delete your call untill it has visited your floor..

rthiyagu_00 said:

There is something wrong with Elevator control. As per standard control logic of any Elevator is to execute the commands in sequence of landinding levels irrespective of going up or down. Then only it has to return if there is a command otherwise it will stayput in last landing level it has dropped the customers.

Click to expand...

Thank you, I take that to mean the elevator I was in was broke. But what would be wrong to cause it to do that? It seems like a logic problem that I would assume would have been found a long time ago. This hotel is at least 15 years old. I don't have any knowledge of elevator control systems but in my downtime over the last few days I have been trying to figure out what could be wrong?

Maybe I have a problem, I get a kick out of the new touchless car washes because I know that there is a PLC doing everything and I try to identify all of the sensors and actuators that make it happen while riding through and envison the program that is doing all of this. Most people are just happy to get their car clean and having to do nothing.

Should I just not care about my errant elevator or should I be concerned about elevator controls in general???

Not that I am real concerned I am sure the elevator was safe.

Again just curious, where is elevemike?