Official letter to your PLC suppliers support.

Hi,

are someone interested in cooperating in writing an official letter (or several letters) with critique and wishes for the products we are using ?

I notice that there is no inbox for direct critique or a wish-list in the suppliers websites (I use Siemens and AB primarily). I can imagine why. Such an open place would be bad publicity for the suppliers.
However, when I have posted problems or even wishes in non-open format, I have been treated nicely and sometimes they have even taken some of my input into account for their next release (I choose to believe that it was my input that was heeded).
So I think that if we collected the input from many people, edited the input to remove the worst flames, collected it into one document, and finally signed this document together it would be treated really seriously, and maybe result in some much wanted changes.

Whaddayathink eh ?

So far, 69 views and no replies. Maybe it is not a good idea.
To get things started, I have posted a list for Siemens software that I have been working on myself for some time.
You can take a look if you are curious, and maybe even post some additions to the list.
http://www.plcs.net/downloads/index.php?direction=0&order=&directory=Siemens&
(siemens_wishlist.pdf)

In the corporation where I am employed, we have a architectural review team that feeds needs/wishes directly to our approved vendors.

I don't think that a public forum is exactly desired by vendors. It could get way too messy.

Hi:
I work only with AB, Do you have a list for AB too, please publish it and I promise I can add it some items.

william

I think this is a good idea. I cannot contribute much with Siemens and AB since I only use them once in a great while, and my stuff is older. Perhaps you should post for only one manufacturer at a time, maybe one per month. Then compile the comments and send it off. Who knows maybe the idea will catch on and others will do the same with a product they also wish to have improved.

Oakley said:

I don't think that a public forum is exactly desired by vendors. It could get way too messy.

Click to expand...

Why ? If properly presented I am sure that they would like to get some qualified feedback.
If a customer has a problem or a particular wish, I want to go overboard to try and help him. This is how most developers feel about their "babies"

widelto said:

I work only with AB, Do you have a list for AB too, please publish it and I promise I can add it some items.

Click to expand...

No, I have too few things to post for AB. This I guess is mainly because I work with mature products such as SLC500 and PLC5. I dont work with Logix or RSView ME/SE. I suggest that you start the list for AB

Jesper:

I work for one of the afore-mentioned suppliers and it has always been our policy to take any customer suggestions and feedback and forward them to the HW/SW developers through our product managers.
We too have seen some of our ideas incorporated into new releases.

Jesper,

If you are looking for names to go on a petitions I would support your doings

It works, earlier this week I sent a e-mail to several people at a drive manufacture, I explained my issues and I got results, many times if you just take no for a answer you will just be ignored, I did not take no and I was not ignored (in the end) and I got results

I think it’s a good idea, if you have several suggestion and they get in the correct persons hands they will get the proper attention, copy the CEO’s and head of marketing, this is how I have got my best results in the past

When AB's forum was alive there was a request section that did get attention. I actually saw some of the requests (if valid) implemented over time. What happened to that forum anyway?

That’s one thing that I commend automation direct for, they monitor their forum and have several threads that pertain to things such as this

I think there is power in numbers and Phil has the numbers on here

I suspect companies the size of Siemens and Rockwell with tens of thousands of products probably feel any feedback they get on open forums will be scattered, unstructured, random, and they'll have no way of judging its credibility - just like here. I recognise certain individuals on this Forum have valuable input to give, but they probably number fewer than 20 in total. The others I can't yet judge or else I've judged them as being of dubious value. And that's just my remote subjective perception. How does a manufacturer coordinate all of that?

I know that some companies set up User Groups for their equipment. Some of the benefits here are that users get to meet other users and discuss issues in a semi-structured environment at group meetings. The manufacturers can also use the regulars at these groups as beta testers, or improvement suggestion teams etc. I think the people who have the best incentive for improving products are those who already own and use them. They tend to come up with constructive and practical ideas, rather than asking for speculative improvements or simply criticising existing features. The danger with places like here is that a user of Mfr. A says "I'll never use Mfr. B because they don't have feature X". In other words he wont use Product B simply because it isn't Product A. But he's already got Product A. What Mfr B really needs is someone who can help him make Product B completely different to and better than A,C,D,E etc

I think establishing the reputation with a manufacturer so that they do treat your suggestions seriously is a very difficult skill to master. I congratulate Jesper on this, but I don't think anyone reading his contributions at this Forum would doubt his ability to achieve that. Well done, Jesper.


Ken

Hi Jesper, i'm interested...


i was much more enthusiastic about this when i started working, i wrote lengthy
letters with detailed description of problems, how to reproduce them, and what is
expected or preferred. so far i've been contacting many, including companies that make
products other than plcs or hmis for example. List includes AB, Mitsubishi, Omron,
Siemens, AtlasCopco, Fanuc and many more. but the amount of effort required to
even get attention is huge, indicating lack of will on their part...

some things got implemented, more didn't...but without any customer feedback with
requests for changes or improvements, the only improvements will be whatever some
PC programmer writing that part of code or his boss can think of.
no matter what they think, he/they have very little idea of what others are looking for
in a product and the companies they work for are not helping them much.

as mentioned before they don't have feedback form or channel to gather feedback.
AB had forum which closed this hole, but this is gone now... it was good in the beginning,
i was getting calls from their progerammers about issues etc. but it once i saw my posts
removed, i wasn't too happy so i stopped visiting. it's gone now so, who cares ...
at least they tried...

they all probably get lot of requests, some may be very hard to implement,
some are not understood and some probably make no sense at all. this makes filtering
the good ones harder so we need some patience too...

so far nobody is perfect but they all still sell their products. this is why they can
afford to ignore some of the pleas...

before combining things into a letter, what wouold be good way to collect more material?
maybe:
- start tread to find out what everyone would like to see (there will be welth of ideas),
- make a poll to filter out the more important/rational ones.
- use poll results to create benchmark
- use that benchmark to evaluate existing products, compare them all
- email link to this review to everyone in this business

Sir Spamalot

I would point out that over at mrplc.com in the Omron forum there are several "pinned" topics about improvements to CX-Programmer, CX-Designer and CX-Supervisor software packages.

It is reported that big brother is watching as many Omron employees and Omron distributors visit there.

The latest updates to these packages reflect quite a few of the suggestions in those topics.

Perhaps the same thing can be done for Siemens, AB etc if you can get some of their important people to watch the threads.

AB people tend to go nut$$$ when you criticize AB product$$$. It is ju$$$t one of tho$$$e thing$$$. It is be$$$t to ju$$$t leave it alone.

panic mode said:

- start tread to find out what everyone would like to see (there will be welth of ideas),

Click to expand...

This thread is a good beginning.
I am using the latest Siemens software (Some, not all, that would be impossible). So I'll offer to be the one that collects and moderates the inputs for Siemens. Unfortunately, I dont think I am the best to do the same for AB or other brands. Maybe someone else will volunteer.

panic mode said:

- make a poll to filter out the more important/rational ones.

Click to expand...

I suggest: Post suggestions in this thread, or send me a PM (for Siemens related issues). I will collect all the input and update the list in the downloads section.
Posters will be accredited, anonymous input will also be accepted, but in that case I will choose to moderate as I see fit.
Then, with a deadline of say 1. March, I will post a poll to decide wich issues are the most important.
Finally, the result will be public on this forum, AND I suggest that a letter with the names of all the posters and/or voters together with the list shall be send to the suppliers top support manager.