Communicating to an AB VFD from a Microcontroller

Hoffman

Member
Join Date
Feb 2007
Location
Northern California
Posts
8
Hello all. I would like to control an AB PowerFlex 4 (AB Cat No. 22A-V1P5N104) using a Motorola 68HC12 microcontroller. I need some basic understanding on communication techniques used by the VFD. Put another way, how does a PLC communicate to a VFD?

I am new to PLCs and VFDs.



I’ll leave this information request open and vague until I get some response.

Thanks for your time.
 
Buddy I would love to help you, as I can gauge from the fact that you wan't a 68HC12 to communicate with an AB VFD that you must be in University. I have used the 68HC12 extensively, and used the Powerflex 70 a lot as well.

The thing being that the current AB setup kinda eliminates having an understanding for the protocol behind the communication. You are basically using RSNetworx/RSLinx to handle all you communications and the RSLogix5000/ other softwares to handle your programming.

What is your applciation? If it is not too intensive say using a VFD for simple Acceleration, Deceleration, stop points.....you might get away easily by using a simple Op-Amp circuit to convert your I/O's to 24V.
 
I'll worry about the microcontroller side.
I would like to know all of the available options the AB VFD has to offer me. From reading other's information it sounds like there are analog and digital communication forms, but I need much more specific information.

I would like to use the 68HC12 in place of a PLC, this is why I posed the question, "how does a PLC communicate to a VFD?"

I have the PowerFlex 4 user's manual here so don't be afraid to reference it in future discussions.


------------------------------
To get started, what do the acronyms SNK and SRC stand for and why are the two different wiring schemes used?

I would like to stay away from using/discussing the RS485 for now.
 
Gimmephone, yes, I used the 68HC12 in my university studies, but never PLCs or VFDs. I simply want to play around with the VFD and refresh my knowledge of the 68HC12.

My application: I simply want to control a motors increase/decrease in speed and direction with the VFD. I built a model elevator for my senior project. My partner controlled the elevator with a PLC and VFD. I have the elevator half and want to get it working again. There are four sensors per floor that the car covers/uncovers as it moves. The sensors were used to ramp the motors speed up or down and indicate position.

I don't want a complete explanation and wiring diagram for this application. I would like options and an understanding so I can decide upon the direction I go.
_________________________________

Can I use Digital Inputs 1 and 2 (pins 05 and 06) on the VFD to access parameters. Then set these parameters to specific frequencies.


For example:
Input 1 | Input 2 | Frequency (Hz)
----------------------------------
low @ 0V | low @ 0V | 0
low @ 0V | high@24V | 20
high@24V | low @ 0V | 40
high@24V | high@24V | 60
 
Last edited:
The answer to all of your questions is at the "Manuals and Literature" section of the AB website. Search for "powerflex 4" and pick out the user manuals and installation instructions. There you will see how to use the analog input and view the I/O descriptions; they are all very simple. Now if you want to get into interfacing via the serial port, you'll have to dig deeper and research all of the communication options: DF1, RIO, D-NET, etc.
 
So what is it that you want to do?

Your first post says you want to communicate.
The last post says you want to control.

To communicate I would look up the DF1 protocol which is a serial protocol used by most Rockwell products.

To control I would use a +/- 10 volt analog output to the drive which is proportional to the desired velocity.
 
jstolaruk, I have been at the AB lit. site, have the user manual (Pub.No. 22A-UM001F-EN-E), have spent a couple hours reading the user manual, and am still very unclear. Keep in mind, I have never used a VFD before. As for the installation instructions, there are four publications, none have any relevance (Pub.Nos.RA-IN004A-EN-P, 22-IN003B-MU-P, 22-IN001D-MU-P, 22-IN002B-MU-P). Page 1-14 of the user manual shows analog control, lets take each case:

1- Pot.: 0V = 0Hz and 10V = 6oHz. I beleive here we have a linear relationship between voltage and speed?
2- Analog Input: Basically the same as pot. control. Again, we can vary voltage 0-10V or current 4-20mA to control speed 0-60Hz?
3- Analog Input, PTC: Here we use a combination of two resistors to achieve a fixed speed?

Analog control will not work for my application, I need digital.
_________________________________________

Peter, I'm wanting to control the VFD with digital outputs from the microcontroller. Why would one want to communicate via the serial port?

Again, an analog input will not work for me. I have digital outputs from the microcontroller.
 
OK, Hoffman, here's a basic rundown on signals in and out of a simple AC drive system.

You will see on the control terminal wiring diagrams some inputs that may be called digital inputs or contact inputs. These are drive control inputs that are intended to see an on/off kind of signal such as from a relay contact or switch. Your relay contact outputs on your PLC are like that. A drive usually expects this kind of signal to control Run/Stop, Forward/Reverse, etc. Sometimes these inputs are used to form external Run Enable loops (closed to run, open to stop) or external Fault loops (closed to run, open to force a drive to fault). Also, these kinds of inputs can be used to force a drive to run at a predetermined fixed speed, select between two different sets of accel/decel ramps, and a host of other possible functions. Three things to watch out for on these inputs--(1)the inputs expect to see a particular voltage, 24VDC, 12VDC, or 120VAC are common. Be sure you've got the right one (2)be sure to understand what happens when the signal is present and not present. The logical sense of the signal is important and has driven many-a tech to sleepless nights (3)Since all of the digital inputs have a single common return, be careful when mixing signals from different sources. Conflicts in commons require isolation relays or optic isolators to eliminate.

You will also see analog inputs often identified as AI1, AI2, etc. These are inputs that are looking for a DC signal that sweeps from one point to another. 0-10V, 4-20ma, -10V-0-+10V are common. There are a number of uses for these but, for basic applications, the only purpose is to tell the drive how fast to run. Using 0-10V for an example, in the drive parameters you will have to decide what speed or frequency is represented by the 0V (Min Speed) and by the 10V (Max Speed). Often these are set for Min Speed = 0hz and Max Speed = 60hz. In that case the drive would run the motor at 30hz (5V) and at 48hz (8V) etc.

Most drives also have one or more relay outputs, sometimes called digital outputs. These can be used to confirm the status of the drive, the most common being as a Fault relay (operating only if the drive is faulted) or as a Run/Stop relay confirming that the drive is or is not running the motor. Note on this one that it does not indicate how fast the motor is running, only that the drive has the motor energized at some speed. You can use these relay contacts to control lights, horns, or signal back to your PLC the status of the drive.

Finally, there are usually one or more analog outputs. Again, these are indicators of drive status, the most common being an analog speed output and an analog current output. These again may be 0-10V, 4-20ma, or other types of analog signals. If you are sending these to your PLC you will need an analot input card to receive and interpret the signals. At least in the case of a 0-10V signal, you can send that to a 10VDC meter and label the meter face for whatever the signal means.

I judge from your earlier posts that you might have a PLC with no analog input or output capabilities at all. That would normally keep you from generating any kind of variable speed input to tell the drive how fast to run. Some drives have a clever way of getting around this problem. In the software, they have the option of setting up two of the digital inputs as speed controls, one as a reduce speed input and the other as an increase speed input. This feature is usually called MOP speed control or sometimes Floating Point speed control. With this arrangement, using two PLC relay outputs, you can shift the running speed of the drive up or down by closing either of the digital inputs you have set up for that purpose.

There are lots of other things that can be done with drives but these are the basics. Good luck and have some fun learning about these things. Twenty years ago, I was asking those same questions and, given enough time, they will become second nature to you.
 
This is what I get for violating my rules.

Hoffman said:
Peter, I'm wanting to control the VFD with digital outputs from the microcontroller. Why would one want to communicate via the serial port?
You said you wanted to communicate you didn't mention digital outputs before. Perhaps you want do download the velocity and acceleration over a serial port. It is a lot more plausible answer than any other alternative. This is what you get when you ask vague questions and I should know better than to answer these. I think I know what you are trying to do but I will wait until you explain it clearly. So far your vagueness has cost you over 29 hours and 8 posts not counting mine and you still don't have an answer.
 
Peter, my vagueness comes from ignorance of the VFDs. DickDV summed it up well. I did not have a basic understanding of control techniques coming into this, thus, I did not know there was a difference between control and communication with reference to VFDs. I clearly see the difference now.

My question, "Why would one want to communicate via the serial port," was not a smart-a** remark, I'm ignorant to this. Can you please answer it?

I did not mention digital outputs because I didn't want a specific answer, I wanted a vague overview, including digital and analog, on control techniques for VFDs.



You said, "...I should know better than to answer these." I'm glad you answered because your post helped me define the difference between control and communication.
_____________________________________________

DickDV, thanks for your response. You gave me the information I needed to knowledgeable mess around with the VFD.
 
Hoffman said:
DickDV, thanks for your response. You gave me the information I needed to knowledgeable mess around with the VFD.
Always scary when someone says their going to "mess around" with something such as a VFD. Sounds about as safe as having to hold a lit firecracker while you count to 10 with your fingers.
 
It's a joke Hoffman. Stand up, take your pen (please do not use a lit firecraker) and count to 10 with your fingers while not putting the pen down and without the use of your pockets to hold the pen.

TW
 
Hoffman said:
TWControls, would you mind elaborating on your comments?

I think what he is referring to is the fact that there are some very high voltage potentials in a VFD and unless you have read and understand the manual, then you should probably not be messing with it.

The reason you are getting some of the responses that you are is because frankly a lot of people don't have time to answer very general questions, especially when there is very good literature on the net.

A good way to learn a drives capabilities is to obtain the Programming Manual, which is often seperate from the installation manual and go through the program parameters. It looks like you have the right one for this drive though.

The manuals for these type of things (VFD, PLC, etc) don't do a good job of expaining why you want to do something, such as serial control over hardwire. That is where experience, or more often, customer specifications come in to play.
 

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