Bowden Parts Washer CRB-4-160 & SLC 5/02

mlhem · Mar 16, 2007

I have a problem with an old Bowden Parts Washer, Model CRB-4-160 connected to an AB SLC 5/02 and a DTAM control panel. The CPU faulted and lost it's program. There does not seem to be any backup of the program. I was just wondering if anyone out there was familiar with this model. They are no longer made and it is very difficult to get support for them. I'm looking for a program that will work in it. I have RSLogix to load it if I can find one. I did find some programs for other models but it is diffult for me to edit these programs since I'm not a PLC programmer. I think the inputs in the programs I have will work but the outputs are all wrong. Is there an easy way to just change the output addresses in the program? I have a schematic of the actual outputs on the machine.

OZEE · Mar 16, 2007

Depends on how big the program is and how they programmed it. I've learned some tricks over the years that would make just changing IO addresses much easier than the way I used to program. But, I would almost bet the whole farm that they didn't employ those methods then, either...

It might just be easier to start over with the program than to edit a program for a different machine that may or may not be compatible.

You don't have a print of the program or anything??

JesperMP · Mar 16, 2007

Maybe there is an EPROM in the CPU (there ought to be an EPROM).
Granted, the PLC should have loaded the program from the EPROM, but maybe the programmer didnt set S:1/10 "Load Memory Module on Memory Error".
You can try to use Comms.. EEPROM.. Load from EEPROM.

mlhem · Mar 16, 2007

I am going out to try the load from EEPROM now. In the meantime, no I do not have a print of the program. Starting over and re-creating the program would be a very long process for me. I don't even know where to begin to do that. I'm just learning and I'm not even sure exactly how the machine is supposed to work. My "normal" job is in IT. The good news is that it is not a big program.

mlhem · Mar 16, 2007

Okay, had some communication problems but finally got connected to it with RSLogix. Bad news is there is no EEPROM. So the fault is cleared but still can't operate the machine. Guess I'll get to work on the program.

rsdoran · Mar 16, 2007

Upload, to this site, a copy of the program you do have and the schematic and we may be able to offer some assistance.

When you cleared the fault did you check to see if it still has a program and is in RUN mode?

ELake20 · Mar 16, 2007

All of those old Bowden parts washers are now serviced & sold thru another company. They should have documentation and be able to send you a copy of the program!
We had a couple at my old job....I'm not there anymore otherwise I would be more than happy to send it to you!

Jimmie_Ohio · Mar 16, 2007

ELake20 said:
All of those old Bowden parts washers are now serviced & sold thru another company. They should have documentation and be able to send you a copy of the program!
We had a couple at my old job....I'm not there anymore otherwise I would be more than happy to send it to you!

Here's a press release from the new company:

http://www.ransohoff.com/pdf/Final-RansohoffBowdenPR.pdf

I agree with ELake20, go to the manufacturer first...

mlhem · Mar 16, 2007

I have been talking to the company that services these (Ransohoff)and they have sent me 3 different programs but only one of them had 4 tanks like ours and none of them had a DTAM. They all had PV 550's so the programs are not very similar. I will try to upload what I have. I also just found out that my schematic may no longer be accurate. I was just told that a couple of the outputs had be re-wired. We're having fun now.

Jimmie_Ohio · Mar 19, 2007

mlhem said:
I have been talking to the company that services these (Ransohoff)and they have sent me 3 different programs but only one of them had 4 tanks like ours and none of them had a DTAM. They all had PV 550's so the programs are not very similar. I will try to upload what I have. I also just found out that my schematic may no longer be accurate. I was just told that a couple of the outputs had be re-wired. We're having fun now.

Universal Problem with OEM's #1: They get this stuff out the door so fast, they don't remember WHAT they shipped.

Universal Problem with OEM's #2: They can't REMEMBER what they make.

Universal Problem with OEM's #3: "Specials" are NOT documented. (Too bad)

Universal Problem with OEM's#4: When they pick up the line of a defunct competitor, they REALLY don't know what's going on, because they didn't make it in the first place. Even if they did, see #1 through #3 above!

jstolaruk · Mar 19, 2007

Jimmie_Ohio said:
Universal Problem with OEM's #1: They get this stuff out the door so fast, they don't remember WHAT they shipped.

Universal Problem with OEM's #2: They can't REMEMBER what they make.

Universal Problem with OEM's #3: "Specials" are NOT documented. (Too bad)

Universal Problem with OEM's#4: When they pick up the line of a defunct competitor, they REALLY don't know what's going on, because they didn't make it in the first place. Even if they did, see #1 through #3 above!

Why would it be the OEM's responsibility to keep prints and programs up to date once delivered to the customer? Washers are one of those products that constantly get reused for new projects once the the original fades away. It normally only requires a tooling/pallet change for the new part and off it goes. I've personally made tooling, electrical, and s/w changes to Ranshoff washers and I gave the updated documentation to the customer, not Ransohoff.

mlhem · Mar 20, 2007

Trying to find a Technician

Ransohoff is now trying to find a technician to send up here that can re-program it. They're still trying to find a program that will work because the only tech they had that knew these machines (he was from Bowden)left 3 years ago. So I'm not sure that they can fix it. I really wish someone had mentioned to us about the EEPROM when we bought it or at least made sure we had a backup of the program. This same thing happened in 2003 and we had a tech come in to fix it (the one that's now gone)and we didn't get a backup disk then either. At that time I didn't have anything to do with it. It was handled entirely by the maintenance people. I've done pretty much everything I can right now. Just waiting to see what happens with Ransohoff. This time I've asked them to install an EEPROM chip.

Jimmie_Ohio · Mar 20, 2007

jstolaruk said:
Why would it be the OEM's responsibility to keep prints and programs up to date once delivered to the customer?

You assumed that the end user modified this piece of equipment...

I assumed that it just was never properly supported by the OEM from the beginning...

Leadfoot · Mar 20, 2007

When the "PLC PERSON" gets there, have them pull the program from every PLC you have. Then have the file named to match the machine. Place all of these files on a disk. Then when you have a disk with these files, make a copy of the disk. Then put all the files on a computer or since you are the IT person, on your server.

Then get the PLC PERSON to PRINT out the code to each PLC so you have it for future reference.

You will not have comments from the PLC but if you have an electrical print you can correlate the I/O points with the actual function. You can then name the bits in the program to match your prints and this will let you gain some feel for programming the PLC.

jstolaruk · Mar 20, 2007

Jimmie_Ohio said:
You assumed that the end user modified this piece of equipment...

I assumed that it just was never properly supported by the OEM from the beginning...

True enough

Bowden Parts Washer CRB-4-160 & SLC 5/02

mlhem

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OZEE

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JesperMP

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mlhem

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mlhem

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rsdoran

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Jimmie_Ohio

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mlhem

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Jimmie_Ohio

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jstolaruk

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mlhem

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Jimmie_Ohio

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Leadfoot

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jstolaruk

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