Converting from Profibus Standard to Universal Profile

thomas1000 · Mar 22, 2007

Hi I need to convert from an existing Profibus Standard network to an Universal DP/FMS Profile in order to incorporate a Profibus PCI Card for SCADA access.

The system conmprises of 315 2DP Master one 315 2DP Slave, two CP342-5 Profibus Modules each with a 314 CPU and a couple of OP277 Terminals. I am using the available IO between the master PLC and each of the slaves.

Can I just change the Profibus profile type in the master and download the configuration to it? or is there more to it than that?

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

Hi Thomas.

1st. Make sure that you have integrated all stations (PLCs, DP slaves, HMIs, others) in the same STEP7 project.

2nd. Change the bus profile to Universal.

3rd. If the PC with the PCI FMS card is not a Siemens component, you shall open the Properties of the Profibus network, and add one more Active Station with FDL/FMS/S7 communication load:

4th. Compile in NetPro.

5th. Download to at all PLCs, and possibly also to the HMI panels.

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

Just to be sure of the above:
What SCADA ?
What PCI card ?

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Hi Jesper,

Thanks for the swift response, I am using a Woodhead Applicom PCI Card, which Im told does not require configuring in the Network Pro.

I have had this card working with the Master Station with all other stations disconnected.

One word of warning to anyone that uses this card, it does not like the profibus node of the station to be communicated with to be 2 as the internal MPI address of the card is 2. Why this is I don't know, but after spending 2 hrs on the phone with Tech Support in France this was the outcome.

Will the IO that I have allocated between the master and slave stations still work after converting from Standard to Universal.

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

Hi Thomas1000.

Do you use FMS for commincating with the Applicom card ?
If not, I suggest that you select "Standard" bus profile and not "Universal". If you check the bus parameters you will notice that Universal mode is much slower than DP or Standard.
Remember to add an Active Station with FDL/FMS/S7 communication load like in the previous example.

kader said:
Will the IO that I have allocated between the master and slave stations still work after converting from Standard to Universal.

Follow the steps I described above, regardles of Standard or Universal profile, and they shall continue to work.

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Thanks Again Jesper,

The profile has to be Universal as the Applicom card requires it.

One more question Jesper, slightly off topic but to do with DP/FMS none the less. Will the AG_SEND and AG_RECEIVE work between two 315 2DP CPU's on a FMS connection or will they only work between CP Modules?

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

Are you sure about that with the Applicom card. I checked it once, and it stated that it supported Siemens S7 protocol. In other words the Standard bus profile should be OK.

thomas1000 said:
Will the AG_SEND and AG_RECEIVE work between two 315 2DP CPU's on a FMS connection or will they only work between CP Modules?

FMS is only possible with special CP343-5 modules, (the normal DP is CP342-5). The onboard DP ports only work with DP.

Anyway, FMS is the original protocol for master to master comms between different vendors. It has never taken off and is extremely rarely used.

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Jesper,

The network profile I have taken out of technote 5 [font=TimesNewRoman,Bold]S7/xxx-2DP
[/font]with S7 or DP messaging and specifies an Universal connection for S7 Messaging.

If there is another method of doing this without changing the network configuration it would be music to my ears.

Thanks again

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

If the technote says so, then it is probably correct. I just dont understand why if you use S7 and not FMS protocol.

Anyway, you cannot avoid updating the HW config on all affected masters, that is PLCs and HMIs. When you add a node on a Profibus network, the calculation of the token rotation time must take the additional node and its type into account. That is why you must add the additional node as described.

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Thanks Jesper for finding the time to reply to my threads.

The reason I was asking previously about the AG_SEND and RECEIVE was that I have opened up a demo project from Hans Berger's CD for a Profibus Project.

The profile was Universal DP/FMS and in the project it contained 3 CP342.5 Modules connectec to Profibus with no DP Connection and each of the PLS were using the AG_Send and AG_Receive to communicate to ane another.

I was just wondering if this was possible with the 315 2DP CPU's which I presume from your last comment that it is not possible.

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Jesper,

Out of curiosity I will leave the network profile in Standard and try communicating in that way to see if it works. If it does I will let you know. I don't want to create work for myself if I do not need to do so.

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

AG_SEND and AG_RECEIVE on Profibus uses an FDL connection, not FMS connection. It is used as I understand it mostly with older projects which contains PCs and S5 stantions. You should be able to setup such a connection between two CP342-5 modules. But much easier is probably to setup an S7 connection and use PUT and GET.

Like you describe it you have one 315 as DP master and the other 315 as DP slave, and then it is not possible to use AG_SEND/AG_RECIEVE.
From another thread you can follow that there is a limited amount of data that can be transferred from a master to a DP slave with SFC15 DPWR_DAT.

JesperMP · Mar 23, 2007

thomas1000 said:
Out of curiosity I will leave the network profile in Standard and try communicating in that way to see if it works. If it does I will let you know. I don't want to create work for myself if I do not need to do so.

Promise me that you follow my advice on adding the additional station to the bus profile, and subsequently download to all affected masters.
If you do not it may work initially, but there may be a hidden problem that will only surface at a later time.

thomas1000 · Mar 23, 2007

Thanks for all of your advise Jesper.

Will let you know how I get on.

thomas1000 · Apr 1, 2007

Thanks Jesper for your help.

The comms did not work on S7 Network Profile of Standard connection but as soon as the Profibus network was changed to Universal Profile it did. I did remember to add and active station to the network.

Thanks

Converting from Profibus Standard to Universal Profile

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