What is wrong with people?

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Apr 2002
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1 Why does everyone think they are the first to see a problem?

To think that one is the first to come across a problem is to think they are trail blazing in some area. This is rarely the case.

2 Why can't people search this forum to find the wisdom, knowledge and experience that it already contains?

To think that the information is not here already is kind of insulting. It is like saying that for the last 8 years we have done nothing. How old is this forum? It must be around 8 years. I know that it has been through many revisions.

I know enough to know that nothing I do in motion control hasn't been done before. I also know that I can find the information I need in books. I actually find little on the internet that is of much use but there have been some gems among the rocks.
 
Most think they are first to find the problem...I like to be the first to solve the problem :D


Peter, I no very little compared to you and many others, but have you ever had a issue and tried to search it, on this site?, yes the majority of the issues/problems have been asked before but finding them and sifting through the 'noise' is the issue

The majority of the time, when I have time (such as tonight) I search by names, yours, Ron B, S7 guy, Bernie, etc, depending on my mood and how much I want to think (how deep)

But my point, unless you are looking for stupid **** (traffic light, etc) there is soooo much information on this site its hard to find sometimes

Phil and others (such as yourself) that have created this site, have actually done too good of a job...if that make sense
 
If I have a problem, I rarely use the search function. Why?? because I enjoy the interaction that a thread gives me based on my specific problem. A lot of times, a person with a problem has more than one question. The interaction with senior members and their expertise is what makes this such a cool place to visit.
Anyone can open a tome of PLC info that is a thousand pages long and read it. But that's a miserable learning experience compared to the question and answer format that this website delivers.
 
geniusintraining said:
Peter, I no very little compared to you and many others, but have you ever had a issue and tried to search it, on this site?, yes the majority of the issues/problems have been asked before but finding them and sifting through the 'noise' is the issue
Spot on, GIT.

geniusintraining said:
The majority of the time, when I have time (such as tonight) I search by names, yours, Ron B, S7 guy, Bernie, etc, depending on my mood and how much I want to think (how deep)
"Me too". I also find that pairing topic searches with people gives the best results.

I often use google to search for posts. The results are different from PLCs.nets own search, sometimes with fewer and better findings.
 
Hi

Is www.plcs.net is going to become a paid site??
Is Peter's remarks is a hint towards this??

Ok will use Search to its optimum potential, do forgive if we came up with stupid question.
 
JesperMP said:
Spot on, GIT.

"Me too". I also find that pairing topic searches with people gives the best results.

I often use google to search for posts. The results are different from PLCs.nets own search, sometimes with fewer and better findings.
I think this is the biggest reason. It is not that so many people are lazy but the search results are not good. I almost never use a site built in search unless it is an integrated Google Search Engine.

Forum search results are usually especially poor because they are ranked based off of newest to oldest where as Google will take into account which thread gets the most hits. All of those threads that refer to another thread that has the answer or have the comments "have you searched the forum for the answer" will come before the thread that has the answer in a forum search. Chances are the thread that has the answer will come up first in a Google search because it is more popular
 
Wow... left field there... Why would you think the forum would become a paid service? There's nothing in anything he said that would indicate that to me.

I think Peter is just tired of people asking the same exact questions without even trying to see if they have been answered before.

Like people who post their homework asking for us to do it.

Nobody knows it all, and searching the forums it is not always easy to sift through the mass of data, but at least give it a try, put forth some effort.

Some of us who like to answer questions get tired of people who just want the quick fix and don't want to even try to find their answer, just post and somebody give me the solution. We prefer to offer people some pointers and help in determining the solution, so they are allowed to learn something in the process.
 
Being an older member here I know where the search box is located, near the bottom. I was wondering if it might be better placed near the top of the screen. That way newbies and students can see that we have this search feature.

I do get a kick out of some of the questions asked here. Peter is right in the most can easily be found using the search.

I also think it is funny when a student attempts to trick us into believing that this is a real job question and not for some class answer.
 
Guilty

I myself have posted 'stupid' questions in the past. Not just to annoy the likes of Peter and the many others who give marvelous advice on this site, but simply because I'm juggling several projects at once and don't have the time to search for the answer myself.

For those times, I apoligise, sincerely and whole heartedly.

For the other times, I'm sorry I asked a 'stupid' question, but without asking, I cannot increase my knowledge. My reason for using this forum (and personally I think I need to use it more) is to learn from people who have done things before that I am trying for the first time myself. There is no point in re inventing the wheel, and that is what I believe is the greatness of this forum.
I am no expert in any area of my job, but maybe one day I can pass on some advice to another "lost soul" and help them in their daily work.

I also agree that just the interaction of this forum is also one of it's great features, and I find this forum to be one of the busiest and most fun to participate in.

Just my 2c worth.
 
MartB said:
simply because I'm juggling several projects at once and don't have the time to search for the answer myself

In my opinion this is not a good excuse, and is actually quite rude to those who spend time answering questions. After all, our time is at least as valuable as yours! (Your gracious apology is accepted. Would that others were as perceptive.)

TWControls said:
...not that so many people are lazy but the search results are not good...

This I agree with. Many times I know a question has been answered before, and may even recall contributing to the topic, but I can't coax the search function into locating the thread without making me sift through a lot of related and semi-related topics.

I'm not sure if there is a good answer to this, since key words tend to be spread throughout dozens of threads. Searching by individual names isn't going to help much for a specific query. First, guys like Ron have thousands of posts. Second, how would a new user know what name to search for?
 
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Tom Jenkins said:
In my opinion this is not a good excuse, and is actually quite rude to those who spend time answering questions. After all, our time is at least as valuable as yours! (Your gracious apolgy is accepted. Would that others were as perceptive.)

I agree, very rude, and I appreciate the time that other people devote to their answers. I was not really offering an excuse, simply stating a fact. I realise that peoples time is valuable and do my best not to waste it.
 
plc_padawan said:
...A lot of times, a person with a problem has more than one question. The interaction with senior members and their expertise is what makes this such a cool place to visit.
...

Interaction is what I'd like to do more of. Being a rookie in the PLC world I know I have a lot to learn, and I have the highest respect for the memebers of this board. At this point I don't have the knowledge to answer many of the questions that are posted. So I lurk, which drops the interaction level down quite a bit. Everyone now and then I'll post my thoughts, but I do it with caution.

The search function is my best friend on this site. Granted it's a pain to search through all the noise but at the same time I'm always confident that I'll find the answer or find another reference to look at. Does the board have the ability to create "Stickies"? We could create a directory for the common homework questions, and any others we feel could bennefit. Using those threads to link to every other that is related could cut down on the repeated threads. It's one way to direct traffic.

Stickied threads that I can think of:

- Students! Homework references here (traffic lights, elevators.....)
- Everying you've wanted to know about PIDS
- The basics of a PLC
 
Hi.
Beeing one of the noobs in here, I've probably have some unnecessary posts on my conscience. I understand Peter Nachtwey very well, and reading how many posts you guys have...you have helped a tremendous amount of people.
You are also very right when stating that there isnt very much helpful information on the net. I'm trying to learn Siemens S7 and the documentation they give out are tremendous. Often, when you have spent the week reading through it, you're still as dumb as you started...
What might be the reason for this? Do Siemens translate directly the documentation from german to english? ...if so perhaps not the best solution? ...or is it because they make alot of money by keeping programming courses? ...one such course for 4 days can cost 2000$ per participant. Smells money out of it...money that ordinary students doesn't have...and naturally we prefer learning it the cheapest way possible. That is by reading, not very good, online manuals.
I've learned computer networking, and it is one way similar to plcs...you can read pages up and down, and try out things yourself for a week long...and not make it work. However when you ask the question in a forum, people like you come up and give you the solution to do it on five minutes!:p
My thoughts is that us noobs who actually learn to use plcs will pay it forward. Further the forumpages should perhaps be divided into subfolders for example in producer or category subfolders.
...and/or perhaps create a hierarchy based on knowledge level/ tread posts. This way the average level users can help the noobs, and relieve you veterans of the most stupid questions.;)
Thanks!
:site:
 
As to the 'search' issue, some forums use a KEYWORD function to assist searching - like so:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=aliens

Here the keyword is "aliens". Notice that the keyword does not necessarily appear in the thread title.


When the inevitable "I need a single switch to turn my output on and off" question is posed, the following example KEYWORDs could be attached to the thread - flip-flop; toggle; one-shot, and so on.

Actually any word could be added as a keyword. At the site referenced above, silly, ephemeral keywords are often included but we won't do that here.


Once implemented (more work for the redoubtable Mr. Melore), all that remains is to train our intrepid techies to search using a keyword. While there's no guarantee that a keyword will find that which is desired, it may very well cut down the time/effort by narrowing the search.
 

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