Step7 / ProTool - Disappearing Buttons!

RMA

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Join Date
Sep 2004
Location
North of Hamburg, Germany
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I'm back in Rossendorf this week, trying to make a bigger bang, as usual and I've noticed our ProTool HMI PC has developed a strange quirk. Actually, it's had the quirk since day one, but it's suddenly got worse.

This is the second screen of the login sequence -

ProTool_Problem.JPG


On this screen the two Logon Buttons, the Logoff Button and the "Zurück" (go back to previous screen) Button have low priorty levels. All the others have various levels above the normal user Logon level of "3". The visibility of these other buttons is also linked to the Priority Level the User logs on with. From day one, if a User logged on with a high priority, which like any other logon caused a jump to this second screen, regardless of the priority level, the high priority level buttons remained invisible. To make them visible, it was necessary to logon using one of the two red Buttons and then use the "go back" Button on the new screen to come back to this screen where - lo and behold - the high level Buttons were now visible.

I never found either the cause or a cure for this behaviour, but since it was absolutely dependable, decided to live with it and passed it off as a feature :whistle: during the commissioning phase!

Now, however, the situation has deteriorated to the point where it is necessary to move back and forth between the screens and then to react swiftly when the protected Buttons occasionally blink briefly onto the screen.

The curious thing is that the Laptop Ethernet access Station has developed a similar behaviour. Buttons allowing access to certain parts of the system which are only available above level 8, blink briefly onto the screen for one or two seconds before disappearing again. If you're quick enough, they still work, but it doesn't make life more comfortable!

In my opinion, the fact the problem is apparent on two different HMIs would seem to indicate a programming problem in the PLC, but:

1) I ain't been here for six months
2) The PLC is Password protected (during the guarantee period)
3) The Online/Ofline compare throws up no differences
4) The problem appears only to have been around for a few weeks or maybe a couple of months

Has anybody ever seen anything like or have any idea where the problem might lie?

One think I'm wondering about is whether the PC may be overloaded. It hasn't been defragged since it was delivered to site about a year-and-a-half ago and the CPU never goes under about 50% load, which I've never seen before - however, I can't remember how it looked a year ago.

I'll be grateful for any suggestions.

Cheers

Roy
 
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You may have already checked but you could look at the hard drive space. I have seen odd things happen on other systems when the hard drive is getting full not giving enough room for buffer memory for the OS. This would be something that could change if they added recipes or data was being logged to a file.
 
Hi Roy.

Just to sum it up as I see it:
As far as I remember, you have programmed something that if someone logged onto one HMI, then the other HMI would be logged off. In other words the PLC is manipulating the logged on user. Also, for the affected buttons you have some visibility animation somehow based on the user level.

The problem must have to do with this functionality that you have programmed with the PLC and HMI. That is the only explanation why both PCs are affected.

Things to check:
Are there events triggered by the entering or leaving of the affected screen ?
In the system functions, what actions are triggered by change of user ?
If the above system function writes the userlevel or username to tags, are there then events on these tags for "change value" or "above/below value" ?
Exactly what visibility animation is added to the affected buttons ?
How is the PLC reading and/or writing the user level ?
Are the tags in the PLC for accessing the user level written to from elsewhere in the program ?
Check ALL tags that have events added to them. Maybe there are some that have become "orphaned". If that does not reveal something, then do the same for screens.

In order to crack the mystery, you could add a display of userlevel and username on each screen. In that way you can simultanously watch how the buttons animate and what happens with the userlevel and username.

edit:
That the CPU is at 50% is also suspicious. Normally Protool RT requires very little CPU time. You could investigate which programs it is that take so much CPU time. If it is Protool RT then it could be an indication that something is really wrong.
 
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I imagine your using V6.0? Which SP are you running there was a know bug with earlier versions with invisible elements and such.


I don't think the SP's are available for download.

Nick
 
Aargh! I'm too long-winded!

Just spent 40 minutes checking things and composing an answer only to discover on trying to post it, that the blooming system's logged me out - everything gone! :(

I'll be a bit more concise this time round!

@Nick, I'm running V6.0 SP2 for both RT and CS. Do you know if there's a newer SP available?

@Jesper

I don't think I need to answer your questions as fully as I did last time, because in the meantime I've taken up your suggestion of displaying the User Level on each screen (I left the Username for the time being, because I couldn't think of how to display a String - other than by using a Text-List, which was too much like work!). That meant, of course recompiling and downloading (I did this on the Laptop, because I'm still working on the changes with the Desktop). Guess what - all back to normal!

There's still this peculiarity of needing to go out of the screen and back in before the previously hidden screens become visible, but I can live with that.

I think I'll leave it at that for now and finish of my extensions to the Desktop program and then see if the new version works there as well.

I'll get back later with the answer.

Cheers

Roy
 
Back to normal!

I've now got my ProTool changes to the point that I was ready to start testing, so I compiled and downloaded the new program. Sure enough now the desktop's back to normal.

One interesting thing I noticed, when I logged on in the first screen, causing a Jump into the second screen the display of the Password Level still indicated zero. Only after logging into the next screen did the Password Level show the Level that I logged on with. Then, sure enough, when I came back to screen two, there were all my previously hidden Buttons visible now.

It looks as though after a while ProTool gets itself a bit confused, a bit like the way Windows and the registry go after after a few months or years - maybe it was the registry?

One thing to note, whenever I do any significant work on a project, before I start I always save the project under a new name (which includes the Version number). This means that if when ProTool starts up it looks for certain files and if they aren't present it creates new ones, then this will have happened. It could be that simply recompiling and downloading a current version of the file (i.e. to a sub-directory of s7proj that already exists) wouldn't have solved my problems.

Thanks for the.

Cheers

Roy
 
RMA,

SP3 was the last one...I think it just added new product. SP2 & SP1a picked up some bugs. Do you have WinCC Flex? I would be curious about if you converted it to Flex would the problem follow?

Nick

Does it act the same way in the simulator?
 
Which simulator do you mean Nick, PLCSim or ProTool's own simulation for testing?

On the assumption that it's ProTool's own simulator you meant, I've just tried it - it behaves identically to the RT.

I'll try converting it to WinCC Flex and see what happens.

Cheers
Roy
 
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I had a go at converting the program to WinCC Flex 2005, but it didn't work. The converter program came up with a message saying that the server was overloaded and that was the end of things. It's a pretty big program - ~5.5 MB - so I tried to see if I could produce a cut down version using cut-and-paste, but that didn't work either.


I'll give it a try in WinCC Flex sometime when I get a chance by building the basic log-on screens from scratch, but it ain't ging to be today!

Cheers

Roy
 
Got 2 GB on my new laptop, so that's not the problem! :) But you're right it made Flex fun to work with!

At least my ProTool's working normally again, thank goodness!

Roy
 

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