Need to make Existing Wonderware Intouch talk to my s7-300 PLC Simulator

We have multiple oil drilling rigs. If an HMI fails on one rig, we will make a new image of the one we have here in the office, which is likely configured for a different rig. Since all the rigs have the same Siemens S7-300 PLCs in the same configuration and programming, when we change the IPs to match the rig and make sure the LMHOST file shows the same class c as the rig in question, it is literally a plug-n-play for the new computer we install.

Then, we ship the old one back to us for repairs, reimage and send it to the next rig that has a problem/failure.

Our problem now is that the old hardware is failing and we are running out of suitable replacement parts, so I have been tasked with getting new computers to work with the plcs. So, they bought me plcs that are the same as the ones on the rigs and gave me the software for them. Then, I imaged an HMI from the existing system on the rigs, hoping that it would be able to connect as easily as the field replacements, but no luck. Once I can get my simulator to talk to the existing HMI, I can start working on the new computers. We just want something of a control to go against when testing the new equipment.

Since the IP addressing appears to be working fine (I can ping the PLCs just fine by LMHOST name resolution and IP address), I'm left thinking that there is a piece of network communications that is malfunctioning due to not being configured right.

This leads me to believe that maybe the TSAP remote and local numbers are wrong. I don't know anything about this topic and am picking up this PLC stuff as I am going along.

Simatic Net OPC Server 2.2 is what we are using on the old HMI.

Any of you wonderware gurus out there have any ideas?

Thanks!

I also should add that I would prefer to not install any new software on the existing HMI. I just want to reconfigure it, if possible to get it to talk.

The new computers will likely use Wonderwares DASSIDIRECT product to connect to the S7s. I just have to know that this simulator will work with my existing hmis first.

Hello again astrobody.

Which OS is there on the new PC ?
I doubt that v2.2 of Simatic Net will work with Windows XP for example.

I just thought of something.
As far as I remember, WWs driver uses the socalled SAPI-S7 interface, not OPC. For this you do need Simatic Net software, only you do not need the OPC part.
Someone else may confirm this.
I know how to setup Simatic Net, also for a SAPI-S7 connection, with the current version of the software. There is also some diagnostics in the current version that probably can help you further. I dont know the old version.

While I can't help, I just wanted to mention that having 'Simulator' in your title might confuse someone at first (me !) as there exists a S7-300 simulator software package that you can run on you PC.

And wouldn't it be better to have an image of each PC so you can just restore it, when needed, and then ship the PC vs having a check list of changes that have to be made to a generic image ?

Why not start with the PLC program running, load it into your test bed plc, use the PC image you have on a new PC (yes - I know the problems...) at least that will start you off in the right direction.

Do you have local support ? Have you called Siemens ?

The new PC is still using NT4,sp6, just like the other HMIs in the field. The replacement computers that we will use once testing on the old stuff is confirmed will be running 2003 Server.

One of the big problems right now is trying to find somebody who knows the old stuff enough to make it work. I may be fighting a losing battle on this front. Management wants me to get the simulator working with the old stuff, but I'm about ready to chuck it all and just work on the new computers.

theDave2 said:

While I can't help, I just wanted to mention that having 'Simulator' in your title might confuse someone at first (me !) as there exists a S7-300 simulator software package that you can run on you PC.

And wouldn't it be better to have an image of each PC so you can just restore it, when needed, and then ship the PC vs having a check list of changes that have to be made to a generic image ?

Why not start with the PLC program running, load it into your test bed plc, use the PC image you have on a new PC (yes - I know the problems...) at least that will start you off in the right direction.

Do you have local support ? Have you called Siemens ?

Click to expand...

I'm waiting for them to call me back. The IP changes we have to make, literally take 30 seconds (or less). It didn't make sense for us to have one image for each rig (that would be 120 different images to keep track of...)

The PLC program is running fine. In fact, I can use Step 7 to connect and change data values and such. I just can't get anything else to talk to it. I've tried Intouch, WWClient, OPC Scout, but to no avail. Are there any freeware diagnostic tools that I might be able to use?

NT4 ?


Arg .... NT support went away a while ago.
I would do whatever you can to get on a newer Windows platform so any time spent is not wasted on trying to band-aid obsolete stuff along.

Saying that.... about half my time is spent at various clients site using 10 year old software on 15 year old PLCS's or patching up a DCS installed (2nd hand!!!) in 1984 and backing it up onto 5 1/4" floppies

In your position though I think making the change now will make you life alot easier down the road.

From the other thread:

JesperMP said:

OK now I understand better, the PCs are the same as the old PCs. That is why a complete image ought to work.
And I thought that the PC you talked about before with STEP7 was the same.

It is very hard to figure out what has gone wrong or what the setup is exactly.
If I understand you correctly, DASSIDIRECT connects to the S7 PLC via its alias. That is why you can take the same HMI application and just modify the IP alias when you copy it to another PC/PLC combination.

Try to connect the PC to a "real" PLC and see if it goes OK. If it does it could indicate that the simulator PLC is not configured correctly.

Click to expand...

Dont let STEP7 being able to connect confuse you.
STEP7 uses a PG connection, and that is not the same as what DASSIDIRECT uses. Probably an ISO, TCP, ISO_ON_TCP or S7 connection.

I appreciate the feedback/help, but I don't think I'm being clear enough on this...

I am not trying to continue using NT4. I merely want to make one NT4 machine that is identical to what we have in the field, work with my test PLC equipment. Once I have this benchmark in place, I will feel much more confident working on the new computers with updated hardware, OS, etc.

We would also potentially like to use this simulator to troubleshoot issues with HMIs that come in as 'broken' until the time comes that we work the NT boxes out of circulation.

The goal is to be able to go to an oil rig. Shut down the old HMI computer, install the new Win 2K3 HMI, and have it work. We don't want the rig to be down any longer than is absolutely necessary to make this change.

I'm from the PC world, not the PLC world, so in my experience, if you have identical hardware and identical software, it should behave the same. That was my thoughts with this simulator we've built. If the PLC stuff we are connecting to is the same, and it is running the same code on the PLCs, that our HMI copy would be able to connect to it without any reconfiguration. Obviously, I was in error, but I still think it is likely a setting that I'm missing somewhere preventing this from being the case. That's why I was wondering about the TSAP settings. Maybe I'm targeting the wrong TSAP addresses, so it just isn't working.

Sorry for the long schpiel, but I've been banging my head on this for 2+ weeks now and it has been incredibly frustrating.

JesperMP said:

From the other thread:

Dont let STEP7 being able to connect confuse you.
STEP7 uses a PG connection, and that is not the same as what DASSIDIRECT uses. Probably an ISO, TCP, ISO_ON_TCP or S7 connection.

Click to expand...

I'm not using DASSIDIRECT yet... Haven't gotten that far. In theory, that was going to be the next step after getting this old computer to work.

You say that it uses a PG connection when connecting with step 7. Is this true when you are connecting via MPI or TCP/IP. Because, I have gotten it to connect via both now on the Step 7 Box.

I second that you should be considering upgrading. I am guessing that these PCs that are compatible with the old NT4 boxes are not exactly cheap. And soon you will find that you cannot get them at any price.

Maybe you get it to work now, but that is really just delaying the unavoidable.

You will probably have to look at both Intouch and Simatic Net (the costeffective Softnet Ethernet Lean should be enough).

I think the reason this old box needs to work is to be able to use it as a test bed for the existing installed base of NT boxes.

That I understand. I am starting to agree with whoever reccommended trying a 'real' plc. Some simulators dont 'simulate' exactly like a real plc and you may never get this to work as it is set up right now.

astrobody said:

You say that it uses a PG connection when connecting with step 7. Is this true when you are connecting via MPI or TCP/IP. Because, I have gotten it to connect via both now on the Step 7 Box.

Click to expand...

Yes. STEP7 always is a socalled "PG" connection. When you are online with STEP7, try to go the CPU Module Information - Communication tab. You can see what connection resources are available and what are already used. Because you are online with STEP7 there will be one PG connection in use. All the other connection types will be listed under that information dialog as "S7" connections.

Try to connect the test PC to one of the "real" PLCs.
That will tell you if the problem is with the PC or the simulation PLC.

SLC_Integrator said:

I think the reason this old box needs to work is to be able to use it as a test bed for the existing installed base of NT boxes.

That I understand. I am starting to agree with whoever reccommended trying a 'real' plc. Some simulators dont 'simulate' exactly like a real plc and you may never get this to work as it is set up right now.

Click to expand...

Even if I can't get the same behavior out of the simulator, I should at least be able to get connectivity out of it, right?
I know how to use the WWClient tool that resides on the HMI and I don't get any values back from the PLC i'm polling.

I'm not asking for full 100% simulation. If I could just get the NT4 HMI to return one value from the PLC, I'd be ecstatic. At least then I would know that something is working here. Pings don't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

All a ping means is theres a physical connection and the IP addresses are in the same subnet.

Agreed that a successful ping only gets you 10% of the way there.

There is no guarantee a simulator will give you HMI connectivity. Alot of PLC simulators are simply for testing code, not for comms.