empty box inside a carton

sinanissa · Jul 31, 2007

I am asking this question because i think that someone may encountered this situation.

i am searching for a sensor that can detect the abscence of a box inside a carton. the carton contains 50 boxes, 25 in each side.
and the 25 are arranged in 5 by 5. if there is a sensor that can detect emptyness so i can tell that the carton is fully packaged or not thus i will be sure 100% that our production line gives excellent quality.

i did not use weighting system because i need online check that will not glued the carton, so it will go out opened.

thank you all for your help.

Mark Buskell · Jul 31, 2007

I don't know of a sensor. My question is why are you not detecting the 25 boxes before you put them in the carton? Is this a pick nd place or do you have operators loading them by hand?

tragically1969 · Jul 31, 2007

sinanissa said:
I am asking this question because i think that someone may encountered this situation.

i am searching for a sensor that can detect the abscence of a box inside a carton. the carton contains 50 boxes, 25 in each side.
and the 25 are arranged in 5 by 5. if there is a sensor that can detect emptyness so i can tell that the carton is fully packaged or not thus i will be sure 100% that our production line gives excellent quality.

i did not use weighting system because i need online check that will not glued the carton, so it will go out opened.

thank you all for your help.

I think you could use a capacitive proximity switch, the selection chart will help you find your ideal one as i dont know the material thickness or sensing range:

http://www.ifm-electronic.com/ifmuk/web/ps!select1_10_30_20.html

sinanissa · Jul 31, 2007

thank you mark,
the sensors used before putting the 25 boxes inside a carton are 5 inductive proximity detectors, that detect every row of 5. i am afraid that one or more sensors will be defective before the preventive maintenance, so i need to be insure.

thank you tragically1969,
now i am visiting this web.

sinanissa · Jul 31, 2007

i visit

http://www.ifm-electronic.com/ifmuk...1_10_30_20.html

but the sensing range are very small (up to 70 mm). I am talking of 500mm (50cm) - where the height of a box is aproximately 10cm.

rsdoran · Jul 31, 2007

I do not think a capacitive sensor would work, it just detects if a material is within a certain range. It can not "see" into a carton with 50 boxes and detect one missing. Short of an x-ray vision system not sure what could, hopefully someone may know of something.

I did not understand why weight could not be used, assuming each carton has 50 boxes of the same product, this could be done at any stage after filling and before closing the box. I have done this on a packaging line where the box was weighed (for shipping costs) by having a fast(er) conveyor create a gap, then the box has time to go on a scale conveyor to be weighed then sent on.

If it is machine loaded then you should be able to count the boxes placed into each carton.

If manually loaded then it depends whether one person loads each box or multiple people load boxes, either way a system could be developed.

sinanissa · Jul 31, 2007

I did not understand why weight could not be used, assuming each carton has 50 boxes of the same product, this could be done at any stage after filling and before closing the box. I have done this on a packaging line where the box was weighed (for shipping costs) by having a fast(er) conveyor create a gap, then the box has time to go on a scale conveyor to be weighed then sent on.

I am supposed to modify a machine which puts these boxes into a carton, there is no space to put a weighting system inside the machine

at any stage after filling and before closing the box

.

if you know a website for these xrays detectors please provide it. but i think that xray is not healthy and may cause illness to surounding people, so i will look for xrays sensors carefully.

OZEE · Jul 31, 2007

Is the box still open at the point of inspection?

If so, you might be able to use a vision system. Perhaps something along the line of a DVT/Cognex??

sinanissa · Jul 31, 2007

OZEE said:
Is the box still open at the point of inspection?

If so, you might be able to use a vision system. Perhaps something along the line of a DVT/Cognex??

the carton is not fully opened.

TConnolly · Jul 31, 2007

sinanissa said:
I am supposed to modify a machine which puts these boxes into a carton, there is no space to put a weighting system inside the machine .

That may be beside the point. Reality is that you may need to redesign the machine to accomodate current technology and economical technology. Weight is simple, reliable, and inexpensive.

MartB · Jul 31, 2007

What about a vision system? This would spot missing boxes very easily.
Cost might be a factor here but I have to think that prevention would be better than detection, especially if you cannot afford much in the detection department.

rsdoran · Jul 31, 2007

Alaric said:
That may be beside the point. Reality is that you may need to redesign the machine to accomodate current technology and economical technology. Weight is simple, reliable, and inexpensive.

I have always lived by "can't never could."

To load a box it must sit upon something, why not a scale conveyor?

If you are already using sensors to count the boxes/rows and worried one may fail, using a plc you should be able to determine and alarm upon sensor failure.

You have not explained the "machine" well enough for anyone to know the process but usually there are ways to determine when a sensor has failed.

Try describing the machine in better detail.

mvandyke · Jul 31, 2007

Would something like this work?
http://www.ifmefector.com/ifmus/web/dualis1.htm

Steve Bailey · Jul 31, 2007

I think you're looking for a sensor capable of detecting Dihydrogen oxide in water.

If you're concerned about the sensors you're already using to count the boxes as they go in the carton, then install redundant sensors and flag every carton where the counts from the redundant pairs don't agree.

Now for a couple of really "out of the box" (pun very much intended) suggestions:

Strike the carton and measure the frequency of the sound it makes.

Pass every carton through a tank of water and measure the position of the water line on the carton.

Measure the volume of water each carton will accept before it overflows.

Run each carton through a vacuum chamber and measure the time it takes to evacuate enough air to get down to a specified pressure level below atmospheric.

AJZ · Jul 31, 2007

Strike the carton and measure the frequency of the sound it makes.

See http://www.modalshop.com/industrial_ndt.asp?ID=103

I have spend a day with this equipment and it is rather amazing but pricey

empty box inside a carton

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