D100CRA20 Questions from a Complete Newbie

Hi Everyone.

I was called in as a computer tech to help one of my clients fix a "computer" that is attached to a metal bending machine.

I found this is more complicated than I suspected. It has some application on the ANCIENT computer attached to a D100CRA20 PLC and when he puts in the specs for his bends, they're way off.

I could be barking up the wrong tree, but I suspect there is programming needed on this PLC and I have no clue how that's done or where I should even start.

This could be a problem with the application on the old computer as well. I was successful at hooking up a slightly newer computer and booting the program on a floppy disk, but the problem still exists that I can't make the bender work properly.

Is there other PLC's that could be put on and perhaps newer software?

Anyone care to give a little guidance?

Thanks in advance. Any help is greatly appreciated.

-James Oliver

solfan said:

I found this is more complicated than I suspected. It has some application on the ANCIENT computer attached to a D100CRA20 PLC and when he puts in the specs for his bends, they're way off.

I could be barking up the wrong tree, but I suspect there is programming needed on this PLC and I have no clue how that's done or where I should even start.

Click to expand...

If he's putting in specs for his bends and you've been called in to "fix" the thing then the inference is that this system has worked at some point in the past. Is that the case or has it never worked and you're trying to finish things off?

If it has worked in the past then I'd advise leaving PLC and software well alone, at least initially. There must either be some sensor telling the control system how far the bend has gone or an actuator which the PLC tells how far to go - or both. Look for actuators and sensors which may have moved from their correct position. If nothing has moved then check that switches switch on and off, analogue stuff is within spec, etc.

The world is full of people (claiming to be engineers) who think a faulty machine (aged 10 years plus) must have a problem with the software. I was once asked what I thought was wrong with the software (causing the machine to stop) in a machine some four years old which had produced over 9 million components. When I said "Maybe the ones and zeros have leaked out across the floor." I was met with a blank look. "Or perhaps its the transducer on the test station which would be in pieces if someone hadn't wrapped it up in insulating tape..."

Hey, not the Jamie Oliver?

(Or is that a reference only people on this side will understand?)

If the operator or anyone else has access to the program to do editting for setup changes, they "may" have accidently changed something in the logic. Save the current program on the machine and then, if there is a known good backup of the program available, try reloading it to the plc. If that doesn't help, try to download a copy of the program currently on the machine and post(attach) it here. Maybe someone could spot some possible changes or errors in it.

You also asked if a newer plc and software might be the way to go.
Depending on how many I/O are needed, I would probably get something from AutomationDirect, maybe a DL105 or AB MicroLogix 1000. That would take an understanding of both the old software and a re-write with the new software.

I wouldn't even begin to claim expertise in this area

This particular business bought this machine from another company. I believe it worked at that time. Since they've owned it (not very long from my understanding), they've spent a substantial amount of money on a guy that initially wrote the application to come out and work on it. According to them, it worked briefly while there, but then he took the disk with him.

After they got that back, they brought in another guy like me (computer tech), and he took the disk with him. Now, it's been given back.. I can't even make a copy without errors.

The name of the application that boots on the floppy disk is (HALBENDR.exe)

I could not find anything in the application for setup.

When he was manually operating the machine, I could watch numbers moving on the screen (way off.. when the JAW was open 1 inch, the screen would read .3 inches).

Here in a while, I'm leaving my office and heading to the client to start again and see what I can figure out if anything.

I will check back on here after I arrive.

-James Oliver (Not Jamie Oliver.. I don't do cooking except on the grill )

Just a thought, if you don't have access to the PLC program why not have a look at the device that is measuring the open JAW. Is it possible to undo e.g. a coupling which will then enable you to adjust the measuring device until the reading on the screen equals the opening of the jaw?

Marshy said:

Just a thought, if you don't have access to the PLC program why not have a look at the device that is measuring the open JAW. Is it possible to undo e.g. a coupling which will then enable you to adjust the measuring device until the reading on the screen equals the opening of the jaw?

Click to expand...

That's one of the first things I'm going to try to figure out.

I'm heading over there right now.

-James Oliver

Figured out where the setup is... Now, I think it's a matter of playing with numbers that I know nothing about to make the machine do what they want it to do.

The angles are way off and it's asking for information that I'm not sure the conversion of.

Guess I'll play around and hopefully not destroy anything

-James

Sorry.. Haven't had time to update.

We figured out most everything by playing with numbers in the setup configuration.

However, the project still went bad.

After getting everything working with a rigged up older computer, we decided to see if we could put all that we learned about the software and system to working on the older computer system. Once everything was back in place, we still had hardware issues.

Deciding that the best way to complete the project would be to put the new box inside the box that is part of the metal bending machine, we put everything together that way.. The system wouldn't boot.

After several attempts and further troubleshooting, we decided that somehow this card that was working fine with everything exactly like it is, had somehow gone bad.

Now, we're left with trying to find an old card (AD-1000 A/D I/O Board by Realtime Devices) to replace the old card and get this system working.

If anyone knows where to find this card, or another replacement that does the same thing, please let me know

-James

It sounds like nothing more than an Analog-to-Digital Input & Output Board. There were many companies making those PC Interface Boards at one time. They are basically a cheap way to get Inputs into and Outputs out of a Personal Computer. Most of them I have seen were not very reliable and they did not work for very long. I think there are still a few new ones available, but finding an exact replacement will be next to impossible.

Lancie1 said:

They are basically a cheap way to get Inputs into and Outputs out of a Personal Computer. Most of them I have seen were not very reliable and they did not work for very long. I think there are still a few new ones available, but finding an exact replacement will be next to impossible.

Click to expand...

I have used Amplicon and National Instruments PC I/O cards and found the digital ones as reliable as their PC equivalents - provided you either buy opto-isolated versions or use separate opto cards (like Opto 22). When it comes to analogue stuff you just need to make sure anything floating isn't too far away from system ground.

The main issue is that none of these cards have the same programmer's interface. Longest time its taken to get one working - a week. Shortest time - 10 minutes (but that was NI hardware with NI Labview so you'd expect that).

What language is the PC application written in? Most of these cards come with VB and C++ example programs. The place I used to work wrote everything in turbo pascal or Delphi so example programs were thinner on the ground...