Machine ID

mp2admin

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Aug 2007
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Hi,I would like some input on finding a viable solution to applying a permanant ID to produciton machines that would follow the machine were ever we have it installed.

1 - is it possible to apply an permanant ID to a machine that can be read by a PLC.

2 - Options?

3 - We have produciotn equipment that can be replace by a new rebuild unit but no way to track how much production is being made on machine once replaced.

Thoughts?

Thanks for your time.
 
An RFID tag is basically a barcode that would be read to identify the machnine, the how would depend on the need.

Here is my question(s).

Where or how would you need to use the ID?

If the machines will be connected to a network then they could be name and/or numbered with that info transmitted as needed over the network.

What is confusing is a plc is usually part of a machine so it can be the ID tag per se.

Are you refering to changing sections of a machine and wanting to keep track of these "sections'?
 
rsdoran said:
An RFID tag is basically a barcode that would be read to identify the machnine, the how would depend on the need.

Here is my question(s).

Where or how would you need to use the ID?

If the machines will be connected to a network then they could be name and/or numbered with that info transmitted as needed over the network.

What is confusing is a plc is usually part of a machine so it can be the ID tag per se.

Are you refering to changing sections of a machine and wanting to keep track of these "sections'?
Click to expand...
all machines are currently connected to a plc for data gathering purposes. but all machines can be removed and replaced with a rebuilt
unit, the plc stays in place attached to a mold behind the movable equipment.
 
I am not sure I am fully understanding what is needed yet.

I will assume that you want to keep track of things like running hours etc for the machines and/or the possibility the machines do different things so you need a method to tell the PLC what unit is attached.

This tells about RFID; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

It depends on the situation, you may be able to use a handheld barcode scanner that is physically attached.

It depends on how many machines and the PLC involved, it could be as simple as using a different input for each machine i.e. 1 mold has 16 machines that could connect to it, use one 16 input card with each using a different input.
 
Sill not saying what the machine part of it is...ok a plc stays in place but " machines" are swapped in and out??..some kind of dies?? pneumatic clamps??..what?
 
These are labeling machine that label millions of items, that we need to know how many items a machine has labeled regard of where it has located or relocated.

Thanks
 
That is a little more discerning. You could use a counter that will display this info and send it to a plc if necessary: http://www.redlion.net/Products/DigitalandAnalog/Counters/CounterRate/CUB5.html

The other option when rebuilding is incorporate a PLC that has the capability of doing a total count in the millions and using comms to send that to the other plc if needed.

If wanting to know it has done it X millions of times either option would allow you to attach to alarm when that point has been reached.
 
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and the labeling machine has some kind of comm port connection or some kind of hard wired id number like a dongle glued on? perhaps a couple of prox switches one to sense a labeling operation... one to sense removal of the labeling unit from the machine then proxs tied to the plc that gets count and a machine is present and when it was switched but not which machine it is...

sounds like problems in the documentation of your process... is this an iso related issue?
 
I can think of a couple of ways to do this depending on your infrastructure and needs.


I like the RFID idea. You just need to use the writable tags. Use the plc to read the cycle count when the item is connected. The plc keeps track of the cycles. You just need to decide when you write the cycle count back to the RFID tag. You can either manually trigger the write when the device is removed or write the count at the end of every shift/day/week depending on your needs.

Another option may be to let the plc do all the tracking. Tether a connector to the devices that move. Use jumpers in the connector to define a device 'address'. For example, a 12-pin MS connector would let you define 2048 different devices. A 9-pin D-sub would give you 256 devices. Just tie in the connector on the device with a mating connector on the fixed plc when you change the device. Don't let the machine run unless the address it sees is at least 1.

Keith
 
After finding out what the "machine" was I took it as a maintenance issue, knowing how hard labelers are run I know they need to be serviced fairly regular but it can be difficult to keep track of which one needs servicing especially if they are the same brand etc.

The issue may be what the labeler has, if older they may be plain electromechanical so no existing method of tracking how many labels have been applied.

Kind of need more details.
 
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kamenges said:
Another option may be to let the plc do all the tracking. Tether a connector to the devices that move. Use jumpers in the connector to define a device 'address'. For example, a 12-pin MS connector would let you define 2048 different devices. A 9-pin D-sub would give you 256 devices. Just tie in the connector on the device with a mating connector on the fixed plc when you change the device. Don't let the machine run unless the address it sees is at least 1.

Keith
Click to expand...

Brilliant and cheap.
 
kamenges said:
I can think of a couple of ways to do this depending on your infrastructure and needs.


I like the RFID idea. You just need to use the writable tags. Use the plc to read the cycle count when the item is connected. The plc keeps track of the cycles. You just need to decide when you write the cycle count back to the RFID tag. You can either manually trigger the write when the device is removed or write the count at the end of every shift/day/week depending on your needs.

Another option may be to let the plc do all the tracking. Tether a connector to the devices that move. Use jumpers in the connector to define a device 'address'. For example, a 12-pin MS connector would let you define 2048 different devices. A 9-pin D-sub would give you 256 devices. Just tie in the connector on the device with a mating connector on the fixed plc when you change the device. Don't let the machine run unless the address it sees is at least 1.

Keith
Click to expand...
Can you please explain the following. What are the devices? Can you provide a link to one of the dvices so I can view?

1 - 12-pin MS connector would let you define 2048 different devices.

2 - 9-pin D-sub would give you 256 devices.

Thanks to all for the quick responses!
 
Keith just expanded on my idea of using the inputs, you could take multiple pin connectors and tie different pins together to turn on different inputs.

Lets use 3 inputs a 4 connector plug with pins 1, 2, 3, and 4 and a 4 wire lead. One lead would be for the signal power, the machines could use pin 1 for power, tied to pin 2 would turn on input 1 and be machine 1. 1 tied to pin 3 would turn on input 2 would be machine 2. 1 tied to pin 4 would turn on input 3 and be machine 3, using 2 and 3 would be machine 5, using 2 and 4 would be machine 6...get the idea?
 
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