Siemens MP370 Ethernet Options for AB SLC 5/05

SNK · Oct 29, 2007

I have a Siemens MP370 that currently is utilizing the DF1 protocol in the Simatic Protool Software, currently communciating to an SLC 5/04 through the serial port using the DF1 driver.

My application is REALLY slow, and we are hoping to utilize the ETHERNET communication port on the HMI instead of the DF1 serial option.

We are upgrading the processor to a 5/05 for different reasons, and would like to try the ethernet route.

This is the problem,

In the Simatic Protool software (V6.0 SP3), the only option for communicating to the AB processors are DF1 and DH-485. Does anyone know if there is an Ethernet option to communicate to the SLC 5/05? (And I don't want to use an external serial to ethernet converter guys)
I want to use NATIVE Ethernet.

Thanks....

SNK · Oct 29, 2007

I have noticed that in WinCC Flex, there is an option for Ethernet...but only to the Clgx type PLC.

https://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?func=cslib.csinfo&lang=en&siteid=cseus&aktprim=0&extranet=standard&objid=16502367&treeLang=en

Can anyone verfiy my findings?
I don't want to replace the whole system with a control-logix system.

Ken Roach · Oct 29, 2007

I recently had a customer using WinCC Flexible with an SLC-5/05 tell me that he had to buy an additional OPC Server license in order to connect the two, as WinCC Flexible's native driver set only included ControlLogix over Ethernet.

I think that the OPC server was made by Matrikon, but I am not certain. What does your Siemens distributor or rep say ?

SNK · Oct 29, 2007

Thanks for the reply Ken.

Working with the distributer....

I am in the Pharmaceutical business, and our company does not endorse a lot of change, without warrant. I wanted to stick with the original MP370, but the app is developed with Protool. Swapping out the processor to the 5/05 is relatively easy, and if all it was was changing the comms option from DF1 to Ethernet, then it would be fairly straight-forward.

WinCC Flex is the most current Siemens HMI software, and will convert my application, or so I have been told. I would have to purchase this software, and the seperate OPC driver it would appear.

I really just wanted someone to miraculously say... we did it...this is how. Not seeing the Ethernet option in the Communication pull-down box for the AB processor made me think that it just isn't supported in the older Protool.

As I indicated in the post, the app is extremely slow to respond. It is currently set at 19.2kb, through the 1F1 interface on the MP370 to the Serial port on the SLC 5/04, DF1.

Has anyone else experienced ultra-slow applications with this setup? Maybe Ethernet wouldn't even help afterall!

Any suggestions?

Tonk · Oct 29, 2007

SNK

Yep WinCC will convert your existing Protool program, I know you can comunicate to an AB plc over the internet never had to do it in the real world yet but I saw a demo running both a Siemens and AB PLC over ethernet,I think Ken is right have to buy an OPC license, if memory serves me right there about $200-250/ license.

curlyandshemp · Oct 29, 2007

SNK said:
Thanks for the reply Ken.

Working with the distributer....

I am in the Pharmaceutical business, and our company does not endorse a lot of change, without warrant. I wanted to stick with the original MP370, but the app is developed with Protool. Swapping out the processor to the 5/05 is relatively easy, and if all it was was changing the comms option from DF1 to Ethernet, then it would be fairly straight-forward.

WinCC Flex is the most current Siemens HMI software, and will convert my application, or so I have been told. I would have to purchase this software, and the seperate OPC driver it would appear.

I really just wanted someone to miraculously say... we did it...this is how. Not seeing the Ethernet option in the Communication pull-down box for the AB processor made me think that it just isn't supported in the older Protool.

As I indicated in the post, the app is extremely slow to respond. It is currently set at 19.2kb, through the 1F1 interface on the MP370 to the Serial port on the SLC 5/04, DF1.

Has anyone else experienced ultra-slow applications with this setup? Maybe Ethernet wouldn't even help afterall!

Any suggestions?

With the SLC 5/05, you could try the DF1 @ 38.4K if the MP370 can support that

Ian

Ken Roach · Oct 29, 2007

Sorry, I didn't know the capability differences between Protool and WinCC Flexible; I was just going off what my customer told me he implemented.

Good luck !

SNK · Oct 29, 2007

Thanks for the update. Do you think I will really see any increase in application speed between 19.2kb and 38.4kb? I seem to think that the DF1 driver used in the MP370 is maxed out at 19.2kb, which is funny, because using the siemens MP1 interface, I can get up to 138kb.

This is a stand-alone system, I am not using the Internet, so am I to understand that I would need OPC for a point to point comms path? I am looking for a point to point ethernet connection. (crossover).

If I worked in any other industry, I would be switching out the MP370 with a PV+ with recipe functionality offered in the v4.0 release. The problem is, the Pharma industry is extremely regulated, and I cannot go and change HMI's that easily. (Although a 5/05 and a PV1000+ would ethernet greatly together.)

Sadly, I am dealing with a slow system that I may have to deal with in a different way. Maybe the software app is bogging down the 19.2 comms. Maybe some fine tuning can be done...

CharlesM · Oct 29, 2007

I am a WinCC Flexible user but I have never used it with AB.

As far as moving from ProTool to Flexible it will do most of the work for you. However depending on how the project was setup you may have to do some work with alarms because it is different in Flexible than in Protool.

I don't use OPC but I know I get OPC server with WinCC Flexible. So you may not need buy anything. I did see a Siemens white paper on using WinCC Flexible with an AB. I will do some searching and see if I can find it. If not i can bring up Flexible at work in the morning and see if I can setup ethernet with AB.

From Siemens web site under communications manual

http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/18797552

http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?query=WinCC+Flexible+Allen+Bradly&func=cslib.cssearch&content=skm%2Fmain.asp&lang=en&siteid=cseus&objaction=cssearch&searchinprim=0&nodeid0=16502685

JesperMP · Oct 30, 2007

I use DF1 with AB PLCs and Siemens Panels. The connection is acceptable for my purposes @19.2k.

Yes there is a 3rd party OPC server for Protool projects on MP panels (have never used it), but it think it does not work with WinCC Flexible projects. Theoretically you could use this for an ethernet connection with your MP panel to an SLC5/05.
And the Ethernet/IP driver only works with 'Logix PLCs.

I would concentrate on why the connection is so slow. 19.2k is not blisteringly fast, but also not creepingly slow.
Are the tags scattered out over many files and fragmented addresses ?
Are the tags set to update continously, or on demand ?
Is the update time set to way too fast for some tags (typical is 1 second update time, setting it faster may be counter productive).
How many tags are there really ? In one of my projects, I have approx 30 words updating continously, and 100 words updating on demand.

SNK · Oct 30, 2007

I will take a look at the tag listing and get back to you guys. Maybe you are correct Jesper, in that the tag refresh time is too fast. I will post something tomorrow.

About the Ethernet/IP thing, it does state that it works with the logix pocessors, and didn't mention the SLC group, that is why I asked in the first place. Sometimes, the manuals are far from accurate...even the translations can be mixed up.,

All in all, it appears like the fine tuning will have to be the first priority. If all fails, I really don't think that going to WinCC Flex is the best thing to do either......

JesperMP · Oct 30, 2007

I just checked it, and it appears that not only does the Ingear OPC server for Siemens MP panels work with SLC500 via Ethernet, but it works both with Protool and WinCC Flexible:
http://www.paneldrivers.com/siemens/Products/AB/ab.html
There is even a 2-hour demo.

SNK · Oct 30, 2007

Good work Jesper!
I will look at this closer when I can test out the application at work.
Thanks for your continued support everyone.

Siemens MP370 Ethernet Options for AB SLC 5/05

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