Does a Master degree make any difference in the business?

Hey people,

Yes it is me again. I just need to get some input from people who have been in the business of Industrial automation and Controls and have years of experience.

I was wondering if a Master Degree in Electrical Engineering (Controls Systems) would make any difference in my future career as an Industrial and controls engineer?. I just graduated this year and from what I have seen so far at work, it does not seem to me like a Master degree in engineering 9at least in the field I have mentioned) will make much of a difference. All that matters is the experience and knowledge on the field. Am I mistaken? Is there someone who might think otherwise.

I have been trying to decide if I should go back to school and pursue a Master degree to enhance my career.

If you plan to teach at some point. Get the Masters.

No, I don't have the patience to teach.

Believe it or not, nobody in my company has a college degree except for the owner/manager, who has an English degree.

In this industry, I think that experience and ability to learn mechanical/mathematical concepts is what is most important. I don't think that college does much more than to help get your foot in the door. It is your performance after that that will keep you moving forward. With that said, I don't see what a Master's degree can do for you.

Use it or lose it.

If you decide to get a MSEE you had better get a job where you use the knowledge and get paid for it. Otherwise it will not be optimal decision unlkess you just like college. If you don't use what you learned and don't get paid for it you will lose what you learned eventually. What the MSEE allows you to do is to shoot for a higher paying and more professionally challenging position out of college but you have to aim high.

Hello XIO;

Good question, however you want to know

if a Master Degree in Electrical Engineering (Controls Systems) would make any difference in my future career as an Industrial and controls engineer

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So, what are your career plans?

Four of my friends took the Master's degree, 1 is now teaching, 2 are pushing paper (and people), one dropped out because he realized (in time)that what he really liked was the nuts and bolts part of the profession.
I myself have an B. Sc, and after long consideration decided (a long while ago) that the time and money spent to get a Master's degree would not be worth (for me) the gratification of a purely desk job. Love the smell of burning insulation too much, I guess... hate meetings and monthly reports... with a vengeance!
Regards,
Daniel Chartier

I only have a trade certificate and, from my experience, half the time finish up telling consultant engineers they do not know what they are talking about.

I have noticed in recent years in Ozz that larger companies do look for 'bits of paper' over experience though. Get an inexperienced young engineer that wants to shove his bloody piece of paper down your throat and knows everything. Put it in writing and I will stick it right back at you at the end of the day usually. Does not matter to me anymore as I now work for myself and BSc, masters and all that stuff can go jump in the lake - I do not need them.

There are some great exceptions to my sentiments though - one has responded to this tread. He is absolutely correct -

If you decide to get a MSEE you had better get a job where you use the knowledge and get paid for it.

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XIO said:

Hey people,

Yes it is me again. I just need to get some input from people who have been in the business of Industrial automation and Controls and have years of experience.

I was wondering if a Master Degree in Electrical Engineering (Controls Systems) would make any difference in my future career as an Industrial and controls engineer?. I just graduated this year and from what I have seen so far at work, it does not seem to me like a Master degree in engineering at least in the field I have mentioned) will make much of a difference. All that matters is the experience and knowledge on the field. Am I mistaken? Is there someone who might think otherwise.

I have been trying to decide if I should go back to school and pursue a Master degree to enhance my career.

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Have you thought about an MBA? Yes they are are a 'dime a dozen' and aren't that hard to get but the HR staff can get impressed. Besides if you want to do any kind of supervision or your own business it could help. That is if what you really want is to stay in school for awhile. But, if you really want to do only EE work go for a PE license. I think that would help your engineering career. When we hire engineers a PE will get you a look before an MSEE, unless it is for an R&D position.

I may have a slightly different take on things. I have Bachelor's and Master's degree's in Mechanical Engineering. The Bachelor's was started after highschool and finihsed in 5 years with 3 simesters of CoOP work. AFter a few years I got the Masters in an evening program over another 5 years and my two employers over that time period paid for the schooling. The employer I was with when I started was part of a large corportation and had an excellent program for funding education. When I move to a very small business in the middle of the program, I negotiated for them to help me finish.

I never worried or cared if I would be doing a job that used the knowledge I gained through my Masters program. I simply love learning and wasn't satisfied with what I learned in undergrad or on the job. At the time I also thought about getting an MBA but the economy seemed pretty screwed up at the time and it seemed the tidal wave of MBA produced over the previous decade were to blame so, rightly or wrongly, I didn't want that path.

Some people are impressed that I have the master's degree and others could care less. Strangely enough, I'm someone who could care less what piece of paper other people have. I've seen plenty of self made men with no "papers" and plenty of loosers with pedigrees. If it helps me get in the door with someone then fine; if they don't care, I'm happy to rely on my knowledge and past performance.

I also am not just pushing paper somewhere. I manage a small engineering department at a regional distributor of hydraulics, pneumatics and electronics and still get involved in letting the smoke out of a device or two, going to customer sites and troubleshooting etc.

For me, even if I'm not using the direct knowledge I learned in my masters program (note I have a mechanical degree and have been doing controls for the past decade) I still believe it was valuable in helping me to be better at analyzing any type of problem I come up against. In my mind, college doesn't really teach you to do anything specific but it gives you the intellectual tools to learn what you need to learn once you get out.

There are many reasons you may want to get an advanced degree and, also, the master's degree route is not for everyone. Only you can decide but I wouldn't rate it's value solely on what type of job it will lead to or earnings potential. You also may want to go work for a while and see what you like and don't like.

Interestingly, I believe being a mechanical engineer has given me a tremendous leg up on EE's when it comes to designing and working on automation and motion systems. Sooner or later all this stuff moves and if you don't enderstand the mechanicas of it, no amount of programming can save you. Of courese, there are many areas where I have had to spend time figuring out simple electrical engineering things that an EE would know off the top of their head. BUT, because I've had enough engineering schooling, I generally know how to find the right reference and am not afraid to dig into the engineering details to find out what I need to know...and when that fails, I make a post here :site:

I went for my MBA

Hi XIO-

When I decided go for a masters degree, I went for the MBA. As has been mentioned earlier in this chain, if you don't use, you lose! I realized this when I tried to help a high schooler at church with her 12-grade calculus!!!!!

I had no real desire to go into R&D, and my engineering work continued to use only a small fraction of what I learned in college, so I didn't see the point of an MSEE. I thought that by getting an MBA, I could pick up a whole new set of skills that would benefit me by rounding out my skillset.

Getting the MBA has definitely been an asset for me, I've got a great job in product marketing where I can get my hands dirty when I want to, or go out on the golf course and wine-and-dine customers. The MBA opened doors for a lot of first interviews, but did not land a lot of offers - I will agree that employers are looking for experience over education. I was fortunate to get the job that I did.

Good Luck with your decision!

I tend to agree with BobB and my 18 or so years of experience has pretty much held true.

Plenty of times I have to bring engineers back down to the real world of what work and what wont.
My biggest beef is with graduates that have no real world epxerience and refuse to even consider that their lovely paper design may have some issues. I mean how can someone with no degree POSSIBLY be able to know more than them?

Its a bit like in the military when officers dont listen to their NCO. The officer may be in charge but who REALLY knows whats going on?

However, that said I think in this day and age, with the lack of quality apprenticeship programs and garbage basic education a BS is pretty much a necessity to even be considered for a job.
I also agree that the actual degree subject doesnt really have much to do with controls work. My company has employees with degrees in everything from geology to welding to computer science.

SLC_Integrator said:

Plenty of times I have to bring engineers back down to the real world of what work and what wont. My biggest beef is with graduates that have no real world epxerience and refuse to even consider that their lovely paper design may have some issues. I mean how can someone with no degree POSSIBLY be able to know more than them?

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I have a BS and MS in mechanical engineering and let me first say that I agree with most of what's been said here. Even though I'm probably not doing MS-level work (or getting paid for it), grad school is where I got interested in electronics and controls, so without it I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing right now. For that reason I consider it a worthwhile experience.

Let me quickly point out that I know I have gotten much more practical experience and knowledge in my 6 years in the working world than in my 6 years of schooling, thanks to some very helpful and talented folks (both degreed and not).

But let's be fair here. For every egotistical degree-waving young punk engineer I've run into, I've also gotten stuck with a non-degreed electrican or tech who falls into one of the following categories:
1) So "old school" in their thinking that they would rather build a system with $1000 worth of relays than a $200 PLC.
2) They have such an axe to grind against those Harvard types that they refuse to listen to them even on the rare occasions when they may actually have a good idea.
3) They'd rather cut off their own leg and eat it than learn some of these newfangled technologies (that have been around since the 1980's).

In my experience, the main thing that makes someone good in this business is a desire to always learn new things and be challenged in your work. This can be done with or without a degree. So whether it's a recent grad who thinks his degree has magical powers, or an old school electrician who shivers at the thought of doing something different than the way he's done it for the past 30 years... well frankly I wouldn't want to work with either of them.

kolyur said:

In my experience, the main thing that makes someone good in this business is a desire to always learn new things and be challenged in your work. This can be done with or without a degree. So whether it's a recent grad who thinks his degree has magical powers, or an old school electrician who shivers at the thought of doing something different than the way he's done it for the past 30 years... well frankly I wouldn't want to work with either of them.

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They should make a reality show with those two, along the lines of The Odd Couple. Make the degreed n00b the manager and watch the hilarity ensue.

That's a tough question to answer. MBA will help if you do decide to go the corporate route but if you want to stay on the technical side, I don't see the usefulness of a MS in EE.

However, if you like doing process work, a MS in advanced multi-variable control will reward you nicely.

Oh, I see you just graduated, in that case, get some work experience first. A word of caution though, professional "student" aren't looked on very well by employers. You have to show that you can apply your education toward the real world.

kittydog42 said:

They should make a reality show with those two, along the lines of The Odd Couple. Make the degreed n00b the manager and watch the hilarity ensue.

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Remind me too much of my life....shivers.....

Those old diehards are what I call "the good ol boys" scare to death something will change their world and someone will come along that knows something they do not.

I have told the story, I think several times, of going to work at a metal processing plant because they had a new machine with electronics etc., and they needed someone up on it.

My first few days there I spent on the machine to get familiar with it, actually kind of simple. Any time it went down I could usually get it running in a few minutes but if it happened when I was not there it sat till I got there.

Anyway, the good ol boys decided this little shack needed power run to it so I had to spend several days (in winter and cold) to dig an 18 inch ditch to run conduit to the building.

Anyway I go in one day and the Supervisor beeches at me because the little building is not done, said all I needed to do was mount the box (ordered and just in) and connect up. Told me the line machine was not in production so get it finished.

I was pretty much finished but it was cold and about break time so I went back in to get some coffee. I see a bunch of people, including bigwigs, standing around the new machine, so I walk over.

The first thing to happen was the HR guy jump all over my arse about being hired to keep the machine running and not being able too.

"I said WHAT are you talking about?"

The machine had been down for a while I was told, I then shoved everyone away from the machine, did my checks, found the problem and had it running in a few minutes (maybe 15 total).

This is the ONLY time I have done this with an industrial plant but I turned around and told the whole group they could KISS MY GRITS, went to the locker room and changed to leave.

The VP asked me to come to the Prez office, I did, and told them I was told the machine was not being used and was given a job that put me on the other side of the plant, I supposed to keep me away. The Good ol Boys had told them I looked at it and couldn't fix it was why I was "out back".

Even after the convo I could not see where I could win out over the "Good ol Boys" so said it was time to find the sunshine and go back to what I knew.