Know_how_protect

Morning Gents and Ladies
I have a S7 project file, some of the blocks display a padlock...telling me that they are locked. So I had a mooch around the file and found a AWL file in the directory s7asrcom. I opened some of the files and found the "locked" PLC code.
So it appears that I have the plc code.....a locked file the question is how do I unlock it ......I assume I have to remove the words KNOW_HOW_PROTECT
there then must be some way of "importing" the code into the project?

carl1,

this topic has been covered many times. Use the 'Search' button just above this thread and enter the term 'know_how_protect'. You should see about 25 threads as a result. Don't forget the legal implications of what you're doing. This site nor its members will take any responsibility. If you're breaking the law, then you're on your own .

Regards,

Hi Carl

I think Jean Pierre's warnings about legal implications, while sound and seriously meant, need perhaps to be placed in perspective.

There are two approaches to creating an S7 block: you can add and edit a block directly; or you can create a source file, edit that, then compile it to produce the finished block. Some languages (e.g. STL) can be used in either approach, some (e.g LAD) can only be used for direct editing, some (e.g. ST) can only be used in source files.

If someone wishes to create a protected block, they must start from a source file. The inclusion of the keywords KNOW_HOW_PROTECT at the appropriate place in the file tell the compiler to produce a protected block. Leaving this phrase out produces an ordinary unprotected block. However there is no way of producing a protected source file. The sensible thing to do is therefore create the protected block and then remove the source file from the project. Otherwise an inquisitive investigative soul such as yourself will stumble upon it and, hey presto, it's open day for the code. Of course if the original author and owner of the IPR wants to modify the code he should have removed the source files to a safe place so he can recall them when he needs them.

So, getting back to the legal position here, where do you stand? The author of the code has locked the blocks, indicating their intention of protecting what they regard as their IPR. They have however also left the key to the lock in the form of the source files. (These should all be visible in your Sources folder, correct?) Does this give you the right to copy, modify, adapt etc their code to suit your purposes? I don't know, I'm not not a lawyer. I suspect if you have inherited the entire project legimitately then the entire contents of the project are at your disposal, including source files.

Finally, there are ways around the Siemens' protection mechanism even without access to the source code. Legality is up to you. It's not a case of what I can do, but what I should do. Just because a car has a top speed of 150mph doesn't make it legal to drive at that speed.

Regards

Ken

sprot

Try with this software remove the know_how_protect

jvdcande said:

carl1,

this topic has been covered many times. Use the 'Search' button just above this thread and enter the term 'know_how_protect'. You should see about 25 threads as a result. Don't forget the legal implications of what you're doing. This site nor its members will take any responsibility. If you're breaking the law, then you're on your own .

Regards,

Click to expand...

Where are you getting all this jibber jabber about breaking the law from ?

The guy has a copy of the program that the machine or system makers left him with, he wants to find out how to get round a protected part of code to modify it for the machines or systems benefit, not crack a serial code or hack a hardware key !!

tragically1969 said:

Where are you getting all this jibber jabber about breaking the law from ?

The guy has a copy of the program that the machine or system makers left him with, he wants to find out how to get round a protected part of code to modify it for the machines or systems benefit, not crack a serial code or hack a hardware key !!

Click to expand...

Its not jibber jabber, the software developers can retain the intellectual rights to software and in some cases protect the code to stop competitors from using code for free, that they have spent time and money developing.

Tell me, as you obviously have a PC, which I presume is windows, can you look at the windows code? You can use it though right.

I believe Siemens will unlock for you, but you would have to prove that the original developers do not exist, or somethig along those lines.

Ken, a little error in you description, the 'usual' way to do this would be to write the code as normal in your project, in any programming format you want, then convert to source to add the infamous KHP. Then re-compile and save the source elsewhere before removing it from the source folder, to enable future developement.

KHP is a quite poor lock though, its easily overcome, search the internet and you'll find tools for sale to remove it, if you know the right files you can do it yourelf easily.

tragically1969 said:

Where are you getting all this jibber jabber about breaking the law from ?

Click to expand...

From 27 years of experience, luckily not personal experience unless I was on the right side of the law. It's not because someone forgets to remove the source of the protected code that making use of it is legal, as Peter pointed out. I didn't say what he was doing or what he was trying to do was illegal, only it might be and in that case he's on his own. I didn't judge, I only warned.

Kind regards,

PeterW said:

Its not jibber jabber, the software developers can retain the intellectual rights to software and in some cases protect the code to stop competitors from using code for free, that they have spent time and money developing.

Tell me, as you obviously have a PC, which I presume is windows, can you look at the windows code? You can use it though right.

I believe Siemens will unlock for you, but you would have to prove that the original developers do not exist, or somethig along those lines.

Ken, a little error in you description, the 'usual' way to do this would be to write the code as normal in your project, in any programming format you want, then convert to source to add the infamous KHP. Then re-compile and save the source elsewhere before removing it from the source folder, to enable future developement.

KHP is a quite poor lock though, its easily overcome, search the internet and you'll find tools for sale to remove it, if you know the right files you can do it yourelf easily.

Click to expand...

It is Jibber Jabber, people making a comment and a judgement on the validty of intelelctual property on a project they know nothing about.

The Windows code is protected by a license agreement, how do you know this guys software is ?

tragically1969 said:

It is Jibber Jabber, people making a comment and a judgement on the validty of intelelctual property on a project they know nothing about.

The Windows code is protected by a license agreement, how do you know this guys software is ?

Click to expand...

How do you know it isn't? Is giving a warning considered judging? I think I'll have to review my English 101 on that.

Kind regards,

jvdcande said:

How do you know it isn't? Is giving a warning considered judging? I think I'll have to review my English 101 on that.

Click to expand...

I dont, but i would expect people to use their own intelligence in deciding that, if they break the law you are not responsible for their actions or any advice you have given.

jvdcande said:

I think I'll have to review my English 101 on that.

Click to expand...

Your English is fine, however I think i may have got out of bed the wrong side this morning !!

protection

Hello guy

with that software you can lock or unlock the software , in the help is written that only the developer of the software can use this software with his own software.
It's only the fastest way to unlock or lock the software

It doesn't have to be a legal/illegal issue at all. I know of cases where companys perform automation, install PLCs and lock all functions and FBs, so later when preblems starting to appear you must sign contract with them for maintenance. That would be justify to break protect and try to troubleshoot the problem yourself...

OK, OK, two issues here ...

One, the original poster asked how to "import" the unprotected code in to the project. Fine, remove the phrase KNOW_HOW_PROTECT, recompile the source files, and you now have unprotected blocks. No judgement offered or advice implied here.

Two, the legality issue. As a completely amateur lawyer I'd say that 'ownership' of software should always be specified in a contract of sale or supply of a machine or project. As a customer you can negotiate with the supplier to grant you full rights to the software. In which case fault-finding, maintenance, alterations etc also become your responsibility once the acceptance test is passed. On the other hand if the supplier states that he is and will continue to be the owner and you are a licensed user then you should not make any alterations to his code regardless of whether it is protected or not. Equally if at any point his software develops a problem which renders it unusable according to the original specification he is obliged to put it right at his cost. As far as breaking in to someone else's protected blocks is concerned, that is trivial - it's all a matter of what is right, not what is possible.

And what if you buy a machine or process and nothing is said by either party about ownership of software ...? Well that's when the real lawyers rub their hands and start charging everyone for advice. They always win in the end!

Regards

Ken

Well, I have just read all the replies, never realised it would create such an interest. I appreciate people wanting to protect their code.....we own the sole rights of the code and machine as per contractual agreement. Unfortunately I do not have much Siemens experience so the original question stands.

I dealt with many machine suppliers and I find this “intellectual property business” becomes an issue……ranging from the legalities of it to judging peoples competence the list goes on and on……..ultimately it boils down to money.

carl1 said:

Well, I have just read all the replies, never realised it would create such an interest. I appreciate people wanting to protect their code.....we own the sole rights of the code and machine as per contractual agreement. Unfortunately I do not have much Siemens experience so the original question stands.

I dealt with many machine suppliers and I find this “intellectual property business” becomes an issue……ranging from the legalities of it to judging peoples competence the list goes on and on……..ultimately it boils down to money.

Click to expand...

I would first contact the supplier to ask why they did it and if they will give you the unprotected blocks or source.

If its a stand alone machine then you may find they have protected it because they have not sold you the sole rights, that is more likely for a machine rather than say a conveyor line.

There is some software available for abour 50 Euro's I believe that can do this called canopener.

If you have a data base editor you can unlock it yourself but I cannot remember the files.

Know How Protect is a poor protection as it is easy to open, but you would find that companies that protect the code do it for a reason. Perhaps they will not guarantee the code if its unlocked and changed.