ML1200 Program review request

Join Date
Dec 2007
Location
Clovis, CA
Posts
41
Hello Ladies and Gents. I'm still waiting :rolleyes: for my copy of RSLogix500 to show up but have set up the file using the ML1000 software from the AB site as suggested by our AB rep.

This is my first project and wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone sees any problems with it. Hopefully I'll be able to open it in the full version, change the controller and upload....err download (don't get me started on that terminology).

Here's the rundown on the process:

Water comes from the process area and flows through a magnetic flow meter, then into a rotary screen filter. From the filter it then is discharged into Pond #1 which contains a float switch (closes when the water rises) and four aerators (1, 2, 5, & 6) as well as a disolved oxygen sensor.

There is a second smaller pond that Pond #1 overflows into that contains another float switch, 2 more aerators (3 & 4) and a disolved oxygen sensor.

The flow meter hardware and disolved oxygen controllers are seperate devices and are sending signals to the PLC via their relay contacts. There is one contact on the flow meter to notify that there is flow.

Each DO controller has 2 levels, plus an alarm contact.

Rungs 0-10 are for setting alarms, turning on and disabling the strobe. There are lights on the front of the panel that stay illuminated. These are switched on from the DO controllers, float switch relays and the OLR on the rotary screen starter as appropriate.

The filter is run by a HOA switch. There is a SOV on the filter to clean it and this run by a timer to turn on and off at varying times. See Backwash starting at Rung 13.

There are two rungs 16 & 17 for a "time clock." They want up to 3 times per day. They may also want to schedule by day as well. I was going to use another set of LIM instructions next to the existing ones looking at the day of the RTC. (Yes, we have the MMRTC module.) Each "time clock" operates one pond.

The rest of the program operates the aerators based on switches on the front of the panel. There is a switch that changes between using the "time clock" and the DO controller. Based on switch position then it either uses the time clock or the DO sensor outputs to operato the aerators. There is also an HOA switch on each aerator.

Does anything in here look wrong from a ML1200 with MMRTC? It's the 1762-L40AWA.
 
Hello, and welcome, Warrior.

Does anything in here look wrong from a ML1200 with MMRTC? It's the 1762-L40AWA.
I made a quick browse-through. The following things jumped out. This is not meant to be a complete list of all problems, by any means. I would have to know a lot more about the process and equipment to get into details.

1. I don't think that Rungs 11 and 12 will work as you expect. The XIO T4:0/EN bit from the TOF timer T4:0 will kill the Rotary Screen output O:0/2 AS SOON AS the "no flow" switch I:0/6 is opened (not 5 minutes later). I suggest changing T4:0 to a TON (On Delay Timer), and on Rung 12, changing the XIC T4:0/EN to XIO T4:0/DN.

2. On Rungs 13, 14, and 15, it appears that the Backwash is supposed to run for 5 minutes then stay off for 10 minutes. However, on Rung 13 you used an XIO T4:2/EN (Enabled) bit to reset the Backwash ON timer T4:1. I do not think that T4:1 will ever reset, so the Backwash will run forever and never stop unless stopped with a switch. If you use the T4:2/DN bit on Rung 13 in place of T4:2/EN, and on Rung 14 use T4:1/DN instead of T4:1/EN, then I think it will work as you intended.

3. You should add the Low and High limits to your LIM instructions on Rungs 16 and 17.

4. For the Aerators in Rungs 18 through 23, you have a HOA selector switch. You have done the logic for the "Auto" positions. What happens if the switch is in the Hand position? I see no way for the PLC to turn any of the Aerators on using the Hand mode. If the Hand switch is hard-wired to the Aerator motor starters, then disregard this note.
 
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Lancie1 said:
Hello, and welcome, Warrior.

I made a quick browse-through. The following things jumped out. This is not meant to be a complete list of all problems, by any means. I would have to know a lot more about the process and equipment to get into details.

Thank you for taking your time to look at my work. I can get equipment specifications tomorrow for further information if that would help. I'm not sure exactly how the rotary screen filter functions. We've worked on projects with filters before, but they just worked with water flowing over a screen and a water sprayer spraying off the "junk" from the screen. And they didn't have their own motor, just a pump to pump water from the tank back into the system. I know that it is manufactured by P&L Specialties (PDF file).

The DO controllers have 4 set points having to do with rising and falling DO levels. Essentially the first contact would be when DO levels are under a certain point and call for the aerators (#1 & #5, and #3) to run. If the DO level doesn't fall, the second contact would then close and call for the other aerators (#2 & 6, and #4). As DO increases the aerators shut down in reverse order (#2 & 6, and #4, then #1 & 5, and #3). If the DO level falls below a certain value, the alarm contact on the DO controller closes and the PLC sets the strobe off. The alarm contact on the DO controller also turns on a light on the door next to the appropriate DO controller.

1. I don't think that Rungs 11 and 12 will work as you expect. The XIO T4:0/EN bit from the TOF timer T4:0 will kill the Rotary Screen output O:0/2 AS SOON AS the "no flow" switch I:0/6 is opened (not 5 minutes later). I suggest changing T4:0 to a TON (On Delay Timer), and on Rung 12, changing the XIC T4:0/EN to XIO T4:0/DN.

Timers are where I'm having an issue...obviously. :doh:I'll try your suggestion. Thinking about it I see where that would happen. The EN bit is only set while the rung is true. So once it goes false the EN bit shuts off. (From my reading around here it seems that people have problems with TOF.)

2. On Rungs 13, 14, and 15, it appears that the Backwash is supposed to run for 5 minutes then stay off for 10 minutes.

This is correct. They want to be able to adjust it with different on and off times, not just an equal on and off time.

However, on Rung 13 you used an XIO T4:2/EN (Enabled) bit to reset the Backwash ON timer T4:1. I do not think that T4:1 will ever reset, so the Backwash will run forever and never stop unless stopped with a switch. If you use the T4:2/DN bit on Rung 13 in place of T4:2/EN, and on Rung 14 use T4:1/DN instead of T4:1/EN, then I think it will work as you intended.

Timers rearing their ugly head again.

3. You should add the Low and High limits to your LIM instructions on Rungs 16 and 17.

I don't have those values yet so I haven't put them in. I will delete any unused branches.

4. For the Aerators in Rungs 18 through 23, you have a HOA selector switch. You have done the logic for the "Auto" positions. What happens if the switch is in the Hand position? I see no way for the PLC to turn any of the Aerators on using the Hand mode. If the Hand switch is hard-wired to the Aerator motor starters, then disregard this note.

The Hand position is wired directly to the starter for all HOAs (there are 8 total, one on each aerator, the filter and the backwash). The only time they show up in the ladder is for the rotary screen filter so the timer can be set for the backwash if they want it. I believe the reason the boss wanted this was in case the PLC fails they can still run the system.

Can't wait for my RSLogix500 to get here so I can test it.
 
Timers rearing their ugly head again.
Remember that the EN bit DOES NOT change when the timer reaches its PRE (Preset) value. Instead, the EN bit is ON any time the rung logic is true and the timer is Enabled.

Looking at your Rungs 13 and 15 again, when T4:1 finishes and the T4:1/DN bit goes ON, which enables Timer T4:2, T4:2/EN goes ON, resetting Rung 13, which disables T4:1, which immediately disables T4:2, which allows T4:1 to restart as soon as it finishes! T4:1 will only be un-Enabled for 1 scan. So it will simply keep Solenoid O:0/3 energized (being off 1 scan is not enough to drop out a solenoid) and there will be no 10 minute delay in between.
 
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Lancie1 said:
Remember that the EN bit DOES NOT change when the timer reaches its PRE (Preset) value. Instead, the EN bit is ON any time the rung logic is true and the timer is Enabled.

Looking at your Rungs 13 and 15 again, when T4:1 finishes and the T4:1/DN bit goes ON, which enables Timer T4:2, T4:2/EN goes ON, resetting Rung 13, which disables T4:1, which immediately disables T4:2, which allows T4:1 to restart as soon as it finishes! T4:1 will only be un-Enabled for 1 scan. So it will simply keep Solenoid O:0/3 energized (being off 1 scan is not enough to drop out a solenoid) and there will be no 10 minute delay in between.

I've changed some things.

I left T4:0 on Rung 11 as a TOF as I'm pretty sure that is what I need for an off delay timer. I did change on Rung 12, position 2, to XIO T4:0/DN. That should open once the timer expires (5 minutes after no flow) and turn off the filter.

I tweaked so much I don't even remember where I started with Rung 13 through 15.

Rung 13 is now using T4:2/DN to reset T4:1.

I changed rung 14 position 1 to T4:1/TT (I believe it was originally /EN). So the SOV should only be running while the T4:1 is timing. The SOV should shut off once the T4:1 hits preset.

I'm using XIC T4:1/DN on rung 15. That should enable T4:2. Once T4:2 hits preset it should open T4:2/DN on rung 13 which will reset T4:1, opening T4:1/DN on rung 15 resetting T4:2.
 
I left T4:0 on Rung 11 as a TOF as I'm pretty sure that is what I need for an off delay timer.
Well, you do need a 5-minute delay after no-flow is detected. To know how to do it depends on WHEN I:0/6 goes low and high.
There is one contact on the flow meter to notify that there is flow.
I was ASSUMING (based on the context of your previous version) that I:0/6 has no voltage at its input terminal until the flow goes to 0, then it goes High and XIC I:0/6 goes ON. If that is correct, then your new Rung 11 seems to still be incorrect.

I simulated your last version in LogixPro. Here is what I see:

1. When I:0/6 goes on (XIC is true), O:0/2 immediately goes off, and stays off. I don't think is what you want. I think you only want I:0/6 to INHIBIT O:0/2 AFTER 5 minutes.

2. With XIC Input I:0/6 goes off, O:0/2 is still off. T4:0 starts timing for 5 minutes. At the end of 5 minutes, Output O:0/2 goes on and stays on until I:0/6 closes again. Again not what you want.

If this is not correct, please tell us how I:0/6 operates. TIP: add a description to I:0/6, something like "Goes High When 0 Flow".

If it is opposite (Input I:0/6 is has a voltage at its terminal when flow is not 0, then you will have to change two things in order to use the TOF: Change the I:0/6 in Rung 11 from XIC to XIO. Then on Rung 12, change the XIO T4:0/DN to XIC.

In this case it is just as easy to use a TON and "positive" logic, than it is to use a TOF and "confusing" logic. Even you are getting confused with the negative thinking required to successfully use a TOF.
 
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I think I hate it this time...really.

Lancie1,

I downloaded LogixPro and got it running the way I wanted.

To clarify things: I:0/6 goes on ("goes high"?) when the flow meter detect flow. When flow stops, it goes off ("low".)

After all the futzing, I think all I ended up doing was changing the XIO on Rung 12 to XIO. What should happen is that O:0/2 should turn on immediately when I:0/6 goes on. TOF TR4:0/DN is set and will remain set for 5 minutes after I:0/6 goes off.

The TOF example for LogixPro set me straight to see what's going on with the timer and it's outputs (EN/TT/DN). Originally I was going to create a branch on Rung 12 with XIC I:0/6 and XIC TR4:0/TT in parallel. Then that example slapped me across the face to say that /DN would do the same thing.

Thank you for your help.
 
Also try some rung comments. Will make life easier for you in the future.
Forthevariableinthelimit blocks use registers like N7:0 instead of a constant like 9. Means values can be changed without a download.
Regards Alan Case
 

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