Panel Specifications

Hello All,


My company does not want me spending the time to Spec out all the components, and lay out the panels (To many projects not enough time). The problem I am running into is the companies we have building panels for us all do them differently. The one company I like cost more, because they build them to CSA standards and use A-B and Phoenix components, but there field wiring methods suck. The other company has been our supplier for 30 years, and they put the cheapest **** they can find into the panels, but there field wiring is very good. I used to work for a panel shop and many of my customers had pretty elaborate specs for us to follow. I am wondering if any of you have a set of panel specs you would be willing to send me as a starting point.

Thanks

That's Motivation.

I may be able to give you something, but are you sure that you want nothing but what I can sell you in your panel?

Allan Barnes said:

Hello All,


My company does not want me spending the time to Spec out all the components, and lay out the panels (To many projects not enough time). The problem I am running into is the companies we have building panels for us all do them differently. The one company I like cost more, because they build them to CSA standards and use A-B and Phoenix components, but there field wiring methods suck. The other company has been our supplier for 30 years, and they put the cheapest **** they can find into the panels, but there field wiring is very good. I used to work for a panel shop and many of my customers had pretty elaborate specs for us to follow. I am wondering if any of you have a set of panel specs you would be willing to send me as a starting point.

Thanks

Click to expand...

It does not matter how great the field wiring is on a panel that does not pass CSA

I am trying to get my company to enforce the CSA thing, But I can not find any supporting documentation that says CSA is nessarry for canadian companies exporting world wide. The CSA site say it is nessary for machinery that is operated in Canada. The big problem I am running into is I am relitivly new to the compay, and our main supplier has been the supplyer for 30 years. I know they don't meet code, and dont use CSA or UL components. I get the "This how we have always done it" argument. I am hoping that if I develop a set of standards and present them I can make an agument for our product looking the same no matter who does the work, and simplifiing the parts used for our service department.

Originally posted by Allen Barnes:

The CSA site say it is nessary for machinery that is operated in Canada.

Click to expand...

Is this relatively new or has this been a requirement for a while? I have worked for two different OEM that have sent equipment into Canada within the last ten years and none of it required CSA approval prior to shipment. That doesn't mean it didn't require it at some point prior to start-up. But usually if that is the case the customer requests that the panels be precertified. Having said that, usually equipment certification requirements are based on where the machine is ultimately going to be installed. For example the company I work for makes equipment for use in Europe. We build these machines to meet CE requirements, on UL or NEC requirements.

As far as standards, as an OEM we have seem everything from no standards at all to 50 page standards that list which terminal blocks you can use and what wiring methods are acceptable. I can't share any of this since it doesn't belong to us. However, I dod suggest you limit your standard to the things that REALLY matter to you. Also, don't just regurgitate sections of a national standard. Reference it.

Keith

Are you dealing with repeat jobs or is every on unique?

If repeat, take pictures of the parts you like and reference them.

If all new, you could requrie the suppliers to provide you with approval drawings and not let them build anything until you sign off on them.

It could cost more but having consistant panels could save in the long run for consistancy of field wiring and ability to service/support down the road.

CSA is definitely not a new thing in Canada, but some industries are less scrutinized than others. It is Kind of like the monitored safety relays in the States, by law all e-stops are supposed to have them. However nobody checks untill after the lawsuit, so no body wants to pay.

As far as panel Specs go, I want to go pretty elaborate and specify almost everthing but the terminals. Things like I want Allen-Bradley IEC contactors, and they must be sized one size larger than what is required for the motor. I have no problem developing such specs I was just hoping to save some time.

Originally posted by Allen Barnes:

CSA is definitely not a new thing in Canada,...

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I stand corrected. I received a PM, interestingly enough from an individual who received some of the machines I was talking about. The customer in this case had the cabinets inspected with the rest of the machine prior to putting them into service.

So I'll turn this a different way. Is there any reason someone in Canada would NOT want to receive a machine with the panels pre-certified? As an end user it seems you run the risk of delaying the start-up if the cabinets don't pass inspection when they are on site.

Keith