outdated plc and panel viewers?

hi all...i came across some companies here thats building a system and i would like to know....is a panel view an outdated piece of equipment? arent other newer and cheaper lcd displays that have touch display panels thats bought of the shelf on home computer shops almost the same in practical use and cheaper too?

the present system that companies are still building consists of a plc,paneviewer,softwares and a pc . lets leave the plc,pc and software alone.is it possible that a cheaper method using touch display panels thats obtainable over here ....replace the panelviewer forever?
im using vb and find it somewhat workable and much cheaper if the panelviewer hardware along with that particuliar panelviwer software were discarded ,for the touch display panels sold here at computer supermarkets for domestic home pc usage.

anyone think it works or wont work?im just curious why they are still using a panelview when theres so much better software and cheaper touch displays around.....

Because you pay your money, plug them in and they work. If something goes wrong (which eventually it will) whoever is around can buy a spare and plug it in and it will continue to work. Homemade displays with VB connections should be left for people to experiment with for their model railways. In my opinion they have no place in the industrial world. Regards Alan Case

vb connection and lcd display??

is the vb software and lcd touch display unstable?i dont think the panelview have iso standards regarding to symbols and in fact panelviews dont really look great compared to what vb can offer...in fact they are almost similiar.

lcd touch displays are not hard to get and they look alot like panelviews in many ways....

in fact i dont think panelviews can last in a harsh enviroment as they arent really that plentiful in supply compared to lcd touch displays.

trains moving around using panelviews?i dunno...must be expensive millionaires toys...

wait a min....panelbuilders are homemade too

hey wait a minute here....dont panel builders end up using displays that are homemade too????

I agree with Alan, the LCD touchscreen you can buy in your computer supermarkets will not be supported by the manufacturer in 5 -10 years. Likewise the VB application you develop is definitely a custom design and is anything but user friendly should the need to modify it down the road. Sure another VB programmer MIGHT be able to make required modifications, but that is a VERY unlikely posibility (and very costly).

The panelview and other industrial interfaces are, by design, made for harsh applications. Your off-the-shelf LCD touchscreen is not - put one in a steel mill and see how long it lasts. The industrial interface is also designed so that application modification is easily done - virtually any systems integrator (and many in-house electricians) can make a modification such as adding a read-out to the display in minimal time.

In short, if you use the equipment designed for the environment and the application, your overall success will be greater than if you try to re-create it using "less expensive" components.

Don't be decieved by appearences - just because your LCD touchscreen system LOOKS nicer doesn't mean it IS nicer. Just ask the technician who has to replace one or the other at 3:00 in the morning.

Steve

lcd touch displays not supported??

the manufacturers dont have a lcd touch screen display that works with vb???u mean the mouse and command buttons wont work with vb???does that mean when u touch a command button it wont be able to work???u mean a display button wont work normal when given a mouse click or a touch????isnt the processing done by software and is independant of the switches or clicks given to lcd touch screen display???im wondering u say the manufacturers' dont have the drivers for the touch screen???

well...for the harsh conditions...its not really hard modifying touch display areas...they are engineering thermoplastic after all.

harsh enviroment n touch screen display

i think when u take out a panelview ...its just enclosed in a big metal housing..if it were to be in a still mill...i dont think plastics on the panelview are designed for that enviroment..i have yet to see any plastic that will not melt or last long enough at 1300C.

the lcd touch display ...what manufacturers were u talking about???and why wont it work???

No, I mean that if anything goes wrong with your display, you will have to buy another - repair is out of the question.

I am also not talking about physically modifying the display itself (although now that you bring it up, you wouldn't want to do that in a real-world environment either). I am talking about the VB APPLICATION you would run on it. How are the plant-floor people suppose to add an analog speed display that the developer didn't know about? Re-wite the VB Code.

I don't think so.

If you don't design plant floor equipment and processes around with the plant floor maintenance staff in mind, your equipment is doomed for failure. Most of your off-the-shelf stuff is NOT plant floor ready.

beerchug


I would agree slightly with gatlinggun.The panelview is surely also not as flexible as vb in the sense you can only do what pv allows where with vb the bounds are endless, and you can talk to different applications on the pc which makes vb more flexible and definitely more interesting to develop.

thats my penny's worth.

You can get industrial pc's with touchscreens. You can program VB to your heart's content. As to being cheaper, that is hard to tell because I don't know what your time is worth.

The panelview display does leave a lot to be desired. I just got a new panelview plus and the display is significantly improved.

gattlinggun2000: True, virtually none of the touchscreen displays out there can withstand 1300 degrees (nor will your superstore's LCD), but then that is not the only rough condition out there - there is dust, high humidity, people with stiff fingers, minor bumping by carts and forklifts (note the word "minor"), etc. These are the kinds of environmental conditions I am talking about.

As far as which manufacturers am I talking about that won't support their equipment 5-10 years from now - all of the ones who supply equipment to you computer superstore. Those guys aren't in the market to supply industrial grade equipment. If you don't believe it, see if you can find one - just one - who will support any 5 year old monitor.

garryt1: More interesting, yes. More flexible, maybe. But generally good for the plant-floor, No.

I'll say it again - make it plant floor friendly.

example of lcd touch screen

ok....lets say ive connected all of em...why wont the display work????

i play a movie on it and it functions well....so when i place controls in vb screens shouldnt it work????isnt the touch lcd screen just a new type of screen with an invisible mouse incorporated into it?????

ok...lets say the lcd display gets overheated and smudges all over...isnt the panelbuilder the same lcd type of liquid???
i think turning it into a hardy display is not really hard using engineering plastics and some other hardware around it....lets say i dropped the panelbuilder from 7 feet..and i do it to a touch screen display too...i think both wont work after that which spells out that they are almost the same regarding harsh conditions.if i want to expand another readout....to another display screen..wont it be easier just to plug it into the puter vid card??

How many time has someone written to this forum with something like "I've got this old model XYZ PLC from ABC company. Can anyone help me understand the program in it"? Quite often there will be somebody here with experience on that model.

Now suppose that five years from now somebody using the handle 'howitzer' writes: "I've got this custom VB HMI application written by gatlinggun2000. I need to add a couple of new objects to one of the screens. Can anyone help"? How many people are going to be able to offer any meaningful help?

gatlinggun2000, today you might look at this as job security, but down the road a few years you might look at it as a liability when your boss takes the position that he can't justify promoting you because there is no one else in the company that can maintain all that custom VB code you wrote.

that means touchscreens do work??

that means it does work when all the equipment is setup!

cool.....

promoting???

naw..they have to pay my company to reprogram their machines and upgrade em like Bill gates...heh