Dead 5 gallon bottle filler

Hello and thanks in advance for any help!

I recently purchased a used bottle filler( steelhead auto mini 100) that is controlled by an omron sysmac c28k. Nothing is working properly on the machine. I am looking for someone in the central Fl area that works on this type of thing? Any help would be greatly appreciated

Matco said:

I am looking for someone in the central Fl area that works on this type of thing?

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Hmmmm, would this be before the hurricane or after the next one

Just kidding... there are a lot of people that would like the work... I would help but I am not very good with Omron, do you want to try it yourself?

I would like nothing more than to be able to do that, but really don't know where to begin. I have very little experience with plc's in general. I do have the manual with schematics for the machine and Steelhead is still in business. Of course they want to sell me a new programmed, updated plc (maybee not a bad idea)that I can simply drop in! I have "diagnosed" the problem according to the manual and it is a failed output relay at 0100 on the outputs that is supposed to initiate the machine. The only information I get from steelhead is that they quit using this plc along time ago.

Do you have the software and cable?

Someone should be able to walk you through changing the output, do you know if you have spares on the PLC?

Is the light (LED) coming on for the output 0100?

No, the LED for 0100 is not lit. There is an alarm LED that is on continuously and when the machine is turned on with the drive switch that input LED is on. As for unused outputs I do not think there are any. If I am looking at this thing right, there are 11 outputs and they are all used. Some are used for features that I will not need however. Thanks for your replies!

So do you have the cable and software?

If you can go with out one of the non-important outputs you can rewire it and change the output address, I have done this many times

If you have the software, you can post the code here (on this site) and we will help you trouble shoot it

or

If you are sure that its a failed output and the logic should be on... (AND THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS) you can jump the output AGAIN be carful with this, do you have a light or another output that comes on the same time that the failed output turns on...

Unfortunately I do not have any of the accessories for the plc. I called a local company that deals with omron and the first question they asked me was if I could get the program from Steelhead(Not going to happen). As for anything else lighting up the answer is no. Thanks again

I know a few good programmers down there, I will send them a link to this thread... we can see what happens (not sure if they work with Omron's)

There are a few really good people on this site that do but they are up north and Texas, but I am sure that there are others...

Have you posted on mrplc.com ? you should there are a few more that hang out there, this post will be buried in a day or two, but the Omron section on mrplc.com will get you good responses

Good luck I wish I was more help....

Mark

I think the PLC and program are good. If the LED for 0100 is not lit, it means the PLC is not trying to turn it on. The Alarm you have now is your clue.
You have schematics. Use the LED's on the Input side of the PLC as go/no go indicators. Check all of your switches and make sure they work properly. For example, pressing the Start button should turn on one of the Input LEDs. Verify that all of the inputs are working properly. I'll bet you will find a problem there.

Do you have a PDF of the prints?

I think Keith is correct, I have never seen a manual that said there is a failed output... it may say that the output is not on... this is a condition of the logic of the PLC

I do not have a pdf, I actually have the paper manual that came with the machine when it was new. In the trouble shooting guide, the first step for the problem "drive system not initiating" is to check the power switch contactor. I did and it is good. Step 2 reads "The output relay has failed. Check for voltage between plc 0100 and L1, there should be 120v showing at 36 second itntervals". There is no voltage at all at any time. It does not list any corrective action for the problem. Thanks again

Sometimes troubleshooting guides are good. Many times they can give worthless info. If the relay failed, but the PLC was still trying to drive it, I would expect to see the LED come on.
Ignore the guide. It's misleading. Do what I said and you will fix it. Find the cause of the alarm. The PLC program most likely would disable the drive system in an alarm condition. Check for safety switches on the panel, or something like that.

I had a quick look at the Omron manual. There is an Alarm LED. I think it's Run, Stop, Fault, and Alarm. Alarm is a soft error that doesn't stop the PLC. Is that the Alarm LED that you said was flashing?

If you suspect a problem with the PLC, a trip isn't necessary. The OEM tried to sell you a programmed PLC. It sounds like you could send your PLC out to someone for checkout. I suspect a small, simple program. A PLC programmer should be able to bench test the PLC, outputs, etc. With the PLC and schematics in hand, quite a bit could be verified.

The alarm light on (not flashing) indicates the PLC is in fatal error.

Page 46 of manual W147 details the causes
http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?download=390

As the machine is used, perhaps the battery in the PLC has failed and the program is gone.

If this is important to your operation, sounds like your idea of getting a upgrade from Steelhead makes sense.

If it's not critical, could be a great learning experiance to get it running yourself.

I live in Central Florida, I might be able to get the software/cable, but will need more info. I primarily deal with A-B and Siemens plc's but I'm pretty sure I can figure it out. I used to work in a beverage packaging plant as well.