O/topic Question

Sorry , this is off topic

Hope you dont mind , I would just like an opinion on this :


I have bottled gas stored in an out building and fed by pipeline into the factory

( Three types of gas , Acetylene , Hydrogen and Ethylene )

Occasionally , when its really cold outside the pressure drops and the furnace that it feeds thinks the gas has run out because the pressure switch registers the drop below its set point

I am currently looking at a suitable method of heating gently ( background warmth ) in the out building

My questions are this

1 , In the meantime , is a jacket of insulating material going to make any difference to the cylinder temp overnight

2 , What would you suggest ( any links would be great ) would be the best way to heat the room

( The out building is , i believe a cat 2 environment , it houses gas bottles but is not a permanent gas atmosphere , with only a small likelyhood of gas being present )

I am looking at tubular heaters , gas bottle warmers , room heaters

Any suggestions /links / Advice welcome

Thanks in advance

Hot water heat from a boiler? (waste heat from the furnace?)

eebads2391 said:

Sorry , this is off topic

Hope you dont mind , I would just like an opinion on this :


I have bottled gas stored in an out building and fed by pipeline into the factory

( Three types of gas , Acetylene , Hydrogen and Ethylene )

Occasionally , when its really cold outside the pressure drops and the furnace that it feeds thinks the gas has run out because the pressure switch registers the drop below its set point

I am currently looking at a suitable method of heating gently ( background warmth ) in the out building

My questions are this

1 , In the meantime , is a jacket of insulating material going to make any difference to the cylinder temp overnight

2 , What would you suggest ( any links would be great ) would be the best way to heat the room

( The out building is , i believe a cat 2 environment , it houses gas bottles but is not a permanent gas atmosphere , with only a small likelyhood of gas being present )

I am looking at tubular heaters , gas bottle warmers , room heaters

Any suggestions /links / Advice welcome

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

An insulating jacket on a gas bottle that requires heat to allow the liquid to expand to gas will not be of much use.
That is possibly the case with Hydrogen and Ethylene

The gas bottle that is most likely to be giving problems is the Acetylene bottle, as the production of Acetylene is normally produced by dissolving Calcium Carbide in water, and water droplets almost certainly are transferred into the gas bottles, which is probably why Acetylene should not be stored below freezing.

If you develop frost on the outside of your gas bottles or gas lines then you are at risk of frost developing inside the gas lines from any water droplets freezing and closing off the lines, as gravity makes sure even the smallest amount of water will accumulate at the lowest point.

Thanks guys , that's really good info

Furnace could suppy warmth to outbuilding somehow but it is a vacuum furnace and doesnt have a waste heat generated that i could easily use , immediate solution is some kind of heating in the outbuilding

Looking at different kind of heaters , if anyone has any links

Thanks for the info so far

eebads2391 said:

Thanks guys , that's really good info

Furnace could suppy warmth to outbuilding somehow but it is a vacuum furnace and doesnt have a waste heat generated that i could easily use , immediate solution is some kind of heating in the outbuilding

Looking at different kind of heaters , if anyone has any links

Thanks for the info so far

Click to expand...

So you buy a small hot water boiler to heat just the room. The beauty of hotwater heat is that it's intrinsically safe.

Just put the boiler in its own shed away from the stored gases. Only the radiators will be in the area with the tanks.

For example: http://www.hydrotherm.com/

( Three types of gas , Acetylene , Hydrogen and Ethylene ) Occasionally , when its really cold outside the pressure drops and the furnace that it feeds thinks the gas has run out because the pressure switch registers the drop below its set point.

I assume this "furnace" is being fired or consuming the gases mentioned is some kind of process furnace
- not a boiler -
part of the answer is answered by the question
How much of each gas are you using when the furnace is running ie what is the flow rate of gas?

Is your hydrogen liquified? If so then in cold weather the vaporizer may not be able to extract enough heat from ******t air to convert the liquid to a gas. One clue to this is ice on the piping. Easily overcome with a warm water spray on vaporizer and pipes.

Ethylene C2H4 I think is supplied as a gas only (uhhh is it? would have to look up yup a gas at STP -- thank you wikipedia). IF it is gaseous in the container I dont see how ******t temperature can affect this. IF a liquid then the same problem as that with hydrogen.

Acetylene in colder weather the gas has more uhhhh solvability (???) in the acetone and will not separate easily. Also check to make sure you are not overdrawing the tank. I believe an acetylene tank can only supply 1/7 th it volume of acetylene. Otherwise you can be drawing off acetone which is what keeps the acetylene stabilized.
CHECK WITH YOUR GAS SUPPLIER ON THIS -- Unstable (uncatalyzed ie acetone) acetylene can auto detonate. Guy who works in an acetylene plant says it does that in the piping. I dont know if he was pulling my leg but I have not been back since he told me that.

I agree with suggestons to use water or steam if you want to warm the building. Safest method to supply heat around combustible gases. Make sure the thermostat if you use one is approved for the area OR has a long capillary tube to keep the electrical components out of the room.
Yes insulation will help in that building warms during day (lessened by the insulation of course) but will not cool down as much during the night.

Do not insulate the hydrogen evaporator or the piping they need to absorb as much ******t heat as possible which is why your room is cooling (in part).
Dan Bentler

nice one , good ideas guys

Thanks

Would electrical heat trace system with insulation on your pipes be a possibility? Heat trace would keep the pipes at a regulated temperature that you could set from a thermostat. I've seen a lot of heat tracing on water and air pipes that are outside running along a trestle.

Yes , its possible to use heat trace , but the gas pipe from the bottles goes immediately through the wall , good suggestion , thanks

Ideally need a way to heat the room , looking at wall mounted Exe rated heaters

Have sourced some possible ones from local wholesalers , just trying to find links / sites that will give me a bit of variety of choice


The furnace is a vacuum furnace and uses the gas during a cycle to impart carbon into the metal that it is heating

Flow rate is an issue quite correctly mentioned earlier , but hopefully not if the overall ave temp is reasonable

I was interested to know if the insulation i put on as a temp measure would / should make a difference to the bottles overnight

It should slow down the progressive reduction of temp in the bottles , but would it allow a slightly higher temp to be held by the bottles overnight or would it just delay them reaching the lower ******t temp for a while

Thanks to all replies