Siemens PLC Block Protection

Our company sold several machines to a Russian company.
The machines were ran , tested and accepted here by the
Russian companies representatives.
We just hired a Russian PLC contractor to help start
up the machines. However he wants to have access to the
Siemens Step 7 pre-programmed password protected blocks (FC105-Scaling),(FC106-Unscaling)and (FC100(Renamed)
CNT_CTL1). He sent back an e-mail to our company that
"The machine will not start until he has internal access
to these particular blocks." Which is not true.
I already knew this but confirmed it with Siemens Tech
Support. However The Tech Support guy could not supply
me with documented information on the protected blocks.
Plus I have been scouring the Siemens website to no avail.
The Russian contractor keeps on insisting that he needs
to open these blocks. He will not listen to anyone. I
wrote the code for the machine and never had to have
internal access to these blocks. Anybody have some kind
of information/warnings on why you should not access these protected blocks? Thanks...

A replacement is called for.... a new Russian PLC engineer that is.


EDIT: I would be pretty certain that Siemens would not guarantee correct function of the block if it has been hacked.

jvjr said:

We just hired a Russian PLC contractor to help start
up the machines.

Click to expand...

jvjr said:

"The machine will not start until he has internal access
to these particular blocks."

Click to expand...

jvjr said:

The Russian contractor keeps on insisting that he needs
to open these blocks.

Click to expand...

lol...PeterW is spot on here...

You need a new Russian programmer because....
- You know he's talking out of his backside when he insists he has to open those blocks for the machine to run.
- Any S7 programmer worth his salt should be able to open them anyway.....

jvjr said:

Anybody have some kind
of information/warnings on why you should not access these protected blocks? Thanks...

Click to expand...

There is no reason why you should not access these blocks.

These are siemens own blocks & have been fully tested, there is no reason to have access to them, many of siemens blocks in the past have been compiled & although translate into the machine code (mc5)for he interpreter it is possible that these blocks contain code that is not in any documentation siemens supply (this was true in step5 (mc5), you could not view the blocks however if by using a hex editor you changed the ju=m001 in segment 1 the block would open as all they did to protect it was add a ju=m001 in segment 1 however in the s5 interpreter jumping across segments with this jump was not allowed therefore the s5 software would not let you open up the other segments.
As the standard blocks in S7 have knowhow protect (can be got round) I suggest to tell this rusky where to get off.
The only reason these blocks would cause an error if the parameters passed to them i.e. a variable that did not exist like a DB or a word > than the length of the block.

When he say that "The machine will not start until he has internal access to these particular blocks", I think it's a translation issue. I think what he's really saying is that "he will not start the machine until the blocks are unlocked".

But, either way, he's clueless no matter how you look at it. If he knows Step 7 very well at all, he should know that there are many locked Siemens blocks from their standard libraries, and that there really isn't anything there to troubleshoot anyway. Or, if he was fairly proficient with Step 7, he would know how to unlock them in the first place.

In any event, just tell him that the blocks are locked by Siemens, you don't have the password, and you'll have to find someone else if he can't do the work. I have about five minutes worth of patience with guys like this. Time is money, especially on a start up.

Our Russian 'colleague' hasn't got a clue about S7: No matter what contract you have with this guy, dump him ASAP...

jvjr said:

Our company sold several machines to a Russian company.
The machines were ran , tested and accepted here by the
Russian companies representatives.
We just hired a Russian PLC contractor to help start
up the machines. However he wants to have access to the
Siemens Step 7 pre-programmed password protected blocks (FC105-Scaling),(FC106-Unscaling)and (FC100(Renamed)
CNT_CTL1). He sent back an e-mail to our company that
"The machine will not start until he has internal access
to these particular blocks." Which is not true.
I already knew this but confirmed it with Siemens Tech
Support. However The Tech Support guy could not supply
me with documented information on the protected blocks.
Plus I have been scouring the Siemens website to no avail.
The Russian contractor keeps on insisting that he needs
to open these blocks. He will not listen to anyone. I
wrote the code for the machine and never had to have
internal access to these blocks. Anybody have some kind
of information/warnings on why you should not access these protected blocks? Thanks...

Click to expand...

Your Russian PLC engineer dont know about these Blocks.Why he needs to open these.No need to open these blocks.Just input the correct parameters when you are calling these blocks.100% it will work....I am sure something other matters,may be payments from your company to Rasian contractor stops him to work and his boss saying this engineer to say you like these stupid excuse.

If the machines were signed off at the FAT stage then couldnt one of your guys go over for a few days once it was all bolted down and wired? It would obviously not be a long stay if already checked out.


Is it a major cost issue to send a US guy as opposed to potentially embarrassing yourselves with a poor contractor?

Cheers

We have a U.S. representative there already however his backround is hydraulic-mechanical-operations inclined only. Since the machine was ran, tested and accepted at our shop in the U.S.A. I strongly suggested that the problems were probably incorrect wiring and/or hydraulic connections not PLC code related. Our man investigated and found numerous wiring mistakes. The machine is now running however the Russian PLC guy still insists those blocks have to be opened for the machine to run properly. Besides the international coach flight and 12 hour Russian train ride what else could possibly be bad with the trip?.... I have been in Russia three times and that is enough for my lifetime.

OK lol,
I understand your frustrations with the economy travel etc and have been there myself... trans-atlantic with my very large/tall frame stuck fast in a seat without decent leg room. First and Last time I do that unless they pay for upgrade.

As far as contractors, with due respect to people on here, it is VERY hard to find a top quality person, which is a problem when the ***hole if a contractor is being an ambassador for yourselves / your company.

cjd1965:

"OK lol,
I understand your frustrations with the economy travel etc and have been there myself... trans-atlantic with my very large/tall frame stuck fast in a seat without decent leg room. First and Last time I do that unless they pay for upgrade."

How about a non-stop international full flight from New York to a Asian country (12-16 hours) stuck with the middle seat in coach. Then have somone pick you up and drive you an additional couple of hours to your work location not the hotel. Been there done that many times. LOL... Our company seriously wants to know why no one wants to travel anymore?

cjd1965 said:

OK lol,
I understand your frustrations with the economy travel etc and have been there myself... trans-atlantic with my very large/tall frame stuck fast in a seat without decent leg room. First and Last time I do that unless they pay for upgrade.

Click to expand...

How about a non-stop international full flight from New York to a Asian country (12-16 hours) stuck with the middle seat in coach. Then have somone pick you up and drive you an additional couple of hours to your work location not the hotel. Been there done that many times. LOL... Our company seriously wants to know why no one wants to travel anymore?Today 09:18 AM