OT: Siemens Busted 1.3 Billion USD in Fines

So I'm guessing Siemens won't be improving their website anytime soon?

Doesn't look like they care much:
The settlements had been widely expected after Siemens announced earlier this year that it was setting aside about 1bn euros to cover any fines.

Must be nice to have a spare billion EUROS to clean up any inconvenient regulations you run into.
 
So when the salesmen says lets go to lunch , you refuse?

Like I said accepting the bribe is the wrong part.

We went to lunch with our Eaton rep just last Friday and have generally done so toward the end of every year. We talk very little about business and when we do we mostly ask her what products are coming up or being phased out. Nothing is ever mentioned about sales goals or selling their products over products from other companies we represent that compete with Eaton.

I believe this is very different from what Siemens did. Here is a quote from another site (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98317332)
"Employees obtained large amounts of cash from Siemens cash desks. Employees sometimes carried that cash in suitcases across international borders to pay bribes," Linda Thomsen, SEC director of enforcement, said at a press conference Monday. "Payment authorizations were recorded on Post-it notes that were later removed to avoid leaving any permanent record."

In other words, officials of the German company knew what they were doing was wrong.
So do you to to lunch when a salesman is paying?

<disclaimer - I have never been offered nor have I offered a suitcase of cash to or from anyone>:ROFLMAO:
 
I don't see the problem with what Siemens has done. I agree with tacm's comment "its normal business practice"
so what else is new. What do you call it when a salesmen takes you out to lunch? The problem is with those that accepted the bribes.

True buy someone lunch is techically a bribe but I do not put it in the same catagory as what Siemens got busted doing.

I know some will call it splitting hairs but when I go to lunch with a vendor I am hearing his sales pitch. This does not garentee he will get the buiness, it just means he has my attention for a while longer. Basically from what I read about Siemens they were "buying" those contracts. IE... They were paying out when they got something in return.

There has always been an implied line you do not cross and Siemens went over it. Problem for Siemens is they got caught.

And right now is not the time to be shelling out 1 billion dollars.
 
Siemens isn't the bad guy here. In many countries, bribery is just how things are done. If everyone does it, then you will get the order if you have the best bribe. Walk around a country like that preaching your morals, and you won't get an order. Salesmen were just doing their job. That's why corporate provided the cash.
To look at it like Siemens is the bad guy, is to say they need to correct every culture they try to sell in.

Personally, I'm against bribes. It certainly violates my ethics. I just want to lay blame where it's due. Evil in the world, etc. Singling out one company misses the broad picture.

Regarding lunch, If the salesman does his pitch during working hours, the boss is paying for my time. If he wants to pitch me during lunch, he needs to pay me for taking up my personal time. The cost of lunch is less than my pay, but it's a friendly and relaxed setting. The salesman is getting a good bargain. It is not a bribe.
 
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I don't see the problem with what Siemens has done. I agree with tacm's comment "its normal business practice"
so what else is new. What do you call it when a salesmen takes you out to lunch? The problem is with those that accepted the bribes.

You lost me here. I haven't seen any details on exactly who got bribed to do what, but something I am very clear on is: When I go out to lunch with a sales guy, I am NOT accepting a bribe.

What I am doing is giving him an opportunity to talk to me. He could do it over the phone, he could do it e-mail, or even snail mail. Taking me to lunch is intruding on my personal time to conduct business that is important to him. I do it out of respect for people who have been there for me in the past. It's pretty much irrelevant to me who picks up the check, but it's traditional that the one that asked for the meeting does it. The amount involved is trivial.

He's not going to get the order because he took me to lunch and he knows it. He'll get the order if he's the best deal for my company or my client's company.
 
Regarding lunch, If the salesman does his pitch during working hours, the boss is paying for my time. If he wants to pitch me during lunch, he needs to pay me for taking up my personal time. The cost of lunch is less than my pay, but it's a friendly and relaxed setting. The salesman is getting a good bargain. It is not a bribe.

The intent is the same.
 
Siemens isn't the bad guy here. In many countries, bribery is just how things are done. If everyone does it, then you will get the order if you have the best bribe. Walk around a country like that preaching your morals, and you won't get an order. Salesmen were just doing their job. That's why corporate provided the cash.
To look at it like Siemens is the bad guy, is to say they need to correct every culture they try to sell in.

Personally, I'm against bribes. It certainly violates my ethics. I just want to lay blame where it's due. Evil in the world, etc. Singling out one company misses the broad picture.

Regarding lunch, If the salesman does his pitch during working hours, the boss is paying for my time. If he wants to pitch me during lunch, he needs to pay me for taking up my personal time. The cost of lunch is less than my pay, but it's a friendly and relaxed setting. The salesman is getting a good bargain. It is not a bribe.


I have to disagree. Siemens *IS* a bad guy here. That there are lots more bad guys out there doesn't excuse their behavior. If it was all just "business tactics", I wouldn't have a problem. If the end customer (mostly folks like you and me with no say in the decision) got a good deal out of it, it wouldn't bother me. But they don't. It's tax dollars of average citizens that pay these contracts. That billion dollars of bribes came out of someone's pocket, and it wasn't the Siemens executives or shareholders. It certainly wasn't from the awesome productivity of salesmen. It came from our pockets. All over the world, they're stealing from us, the working guys who pay taxes.
 

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