Siemens

rameshreee · Dec 24, 2008

hi to all,
am new to this forum...
does anyone know about siemens plc s7-300..am doing project on plc...could u please help me out whatever u know about siemens plc...
my project is to control an induction motor through inverter with the help of plc(all controls will be done by HMI)...i surfed in net regarding my project..but i cudnt get any valuable information..i have a few question regarding my project..i put my questions here...kindly please help me out...if u know about this...thanks in advance..

1)
as am using inverter..i need to generate the pulse..which one is better whether s7-200 or s7-300.

2)am using siemens op 27 HMI..how to communicate with PLC?..does s7-200 can communicate with op 27?

3)how to communicate inverter throu plc?

4) which control(ie stator voltage control,frequency control etc..) method is best for an induction motor..

5)is there any easy method to control the motor thro plc...

6)how to configure the siemens op 27 HMI?

kindly please help me out these question..if anyone know about this...am waitin for ur valuable information...thanks in advance

tim2 · Dec 24, 2008

What specifically is the hardware (the inverter and motor). If its all Siemens hardware they may already have some software written for it that you just configure.

I don't know about the 200, the 300 is definitely capable. You will need different software for either version (Microwin for the 200 or STEP 7 for the 300)

You will also need separate software for the HMI. Probably WinCC Flex. With an OP27 you may be able to use ProTool (its a little older than WinCC flex and is for older HMI panels).

Clay B. · Dec 24, 2008

Lots of options

With Siemens alot depnds on what hardware you use. Since you are talking about an HMI and a Drive you can go several different ways. The entire system can be setup on Profibus which will limit how much feild wiring is needed. That said your drive will have to be profibus compatible. My suggestion is to call your local Siemens distributor and talk to him in detail on what you need. Not knowing your process makes it hard to know what level of control you need. I am attaching a web page from Siemens. I use this alot. It allows me to get specefic info on the various componets that Siemens sales.

After you talk to your rep. Post his suggestions and several here can help you fill in the blanks on how to make it work together.

FYI..pertaining to your question on how is the best way to control a drive....it is really dependant on what you want to do... Is precise speed needed, torque, or some other factor...

web page:http://support.automation.siemens.c...tandard&viewreg=US&objid=10805065&treeLang=en

rameshreee · Dec 24, 2008

Thanks

thanks for ur replies tim and clay..does siemens have inverter or any other driver specifically for motor..cud u tell me the name..

im using protool cs to configure op 27..but i cud see only soft keys(i.e fx keys) in the screen menu..Kx keys were disabled and system keys(i.e esc,enter,up,down,right,left arrow) were not appeared in the protool soft to config the HMI..

cud u please tell me the way to config the HMI..

do u know abt ac drive micromaster...thanks in advance..

tim2 · Dec 24, 2008

Siemens has several available. The one you need will depend specifically on your applications. Do you need servo control, or are you just going to run a conveyor?

I've worked with a Siemens 611U drive coupled to servo motors controlled by a PLC over Profibus. They also have Masterdrive and Micromaster. They tend to group these under different product family names:

SIMORDRIVE - The 611U
SIMOREG and SIMOVERT - the Masterdrives and Micromasters
SINAMICS - even more drives

Again, which to use depends on exactly what your application is. If its something simpler a SIMOREG or SIMOVERT system might do ago. More complex you may need a 611U, which would be overkill for a simple project.

I would suggest just going to the Siemens Service and Support website, putting in some of the family names and reading about the different capablilities to try to decide what you need, or contact a local Siemens rep and tell him what it is you need to do. Or just keep posting here, the more specifics you can provide the better.

gkelley@mcaps-inc.co · Dec 24, 2008

rameshreee said:
thanks for ur replies tim and clay..does siemens have inverter or any other driver specifically for motor..cud u tell me the name..

im using protool cs to configure op 27..but i cud see only soft keys(i.e fx keys) in the screen menu..Kx keys were disabled and system keys(i.e esc,enter,up,down,right,left arrow) were not appeared in the protool soft to config the HMI..

cud u please tell me the way to config the HMI..

do u know abt ac drive micromaster...thanks in advance..

ranshreee,
It really depends on what your applicaion is as to what type drive you use. Is your application involve position control or are you simply turning a fan / pump? If you want to use Siemens drives the micromaster has two protocols you can use to communicate to the plc. One is older and less expensive called USS protocol, the other is Profibus. If you want to go inexpensive use a 200 PLC with uss. If you have so money in your budget then the 300 series PLC with profibus is the way to go.

benji · Dec 25, 2008

there would be multiple methods to drive an inverter by a plc
you can use the digital fixed frequencies of the inverter so the wiring would be just digital outputs of plc to digital inputs of inverter

or you can send an analog signal from the plc to the analog as a setpoint

or you can connect the 2 using a bus (ex: Profibus Dp)

rameshreee · Dec 31, 2008

thanks

hi..thanks for ur replies..

i ve decided to use micromaster vector drive for my project....this drive itself programmed to control the motor for the standard application ...but i want to control this motor through s7-300 with the help of op 27...now my question is how to configure the inverter to my application...
how to connect the s7-300 to this drive externally...
where should i have to connect my HMI whether s7-300 or drive...

notes: in micromaster vector manual ..they mentioned...do not use internal rs485 if u intend using an external rs485 on the front panel..eg; to connect the clear text display...
what it meant...

please help me out for these questions...thanks in advance...

dchartier · Dec 31, 2008

Hello rameshreee;
Attached you will find documents on basic commissioning of the Micromaster 440, and on program examples for a S7-300 PLC with a MM4 drive over Profibus-DP.
The following link will take you to a Siemens Application file that describes control of a MM4 drive using an operator panel.
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/22072988

Study these, they can all be adapted to your purposes, but you still have a lot top learn before you make this work properly.
Hoep this helps,
Daniel Chartier

umencho · Dec 31, 2008

Hello,
let's divide question:
1. Profibus connection with CPU and MM3:
This two links are usefull:
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/de/22813212
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/de/8894363
(examples are for MM4 ).Replace with your MM3 and watch out : maybe in parameteres has some differences.
To connect to profibus in your hardware catalog in Step7 must find Micro/Midi/CombiMaster CB15/155.

2. Connecting OP27 to CPU: Follow this link: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/17967302 (of course you can use other type of connection )

regards

rameshreee · Dec 31, 2008

thank u for ur attachment daniel...as u said..i ve to learn a lot..i started this project recently..i feel this is the best place to get suggestion reg my proj..thanks again to all...

i would like to wish u all A HAPPY NEW YEAR...

yazco · Jan 1, 2009

Seimens PLC

Yes can be done kindly give details of vfd model/manufacture

rameshreee said:
hi to all,
am new to this forum...
Does anyone know about siemens plc s7-300..am doing project on plc...could u please help me out whatever u know about siemens plc...
My project is to control an induction motor through inverter with the help of plc(all controls will be done by hmi)...i surfed in net regarding my project..but i cudnt get any valuable information..i have a few question regarding my project..i put my questions here...kindly please help me out...if u know about this...thanks in advance..

1)
as am using inverter..i need to generate the pulse..which one is better whether s7-200 or s7-300.

2)am using siemens op 27 hmi..how to communicate with plc?..does s7-200 can communicate with op 27?

3)how to communicate inverter throu plc?

4) which control(ie stator voltage control,frequency control etc..) method is best for an induction motor..

5)is there any easy method to control the motor thro plc...

6)how to configure the siemens op 27 hmi?

Kindly please help me out these question..if anyone know about this...am waitin for ur valuable information...thanks in advance

rameshreee · Jan 20, 2009

hi..
micromaster vector 6SE3212 0DA4 0this is the drive which i want to use....please tell me how to use this drive to my s7-300 module or program...

how to give pulse from s7-300 to 3ph pwm inverter...is there any power drivers or modules available for s7-300...please help me out..

thanks in advance...

dchartier · Jan 20, 2009

hello rameshreee;
There is liss and less information available on the Micromaster Vector 3 line of drives, they were discontinued 2 years ago, so they are in their last stage.
The drive has its own powerstage inbuilt, so you do not have to worry about that at this point.
I do not recomend you use PWM connection between your PLC and the drive. Using standard PLC analog and digital outputs you can give commands to the drive, as long as it has been parametrized and wired properly.
The drive accepts digital control (with set frequencies) or analog control. Look at the following extract from the Operating Instructions manual (link is shown):

6SE3212-0DA40
MICROMASTER VECTOR MMV75/3
Operating Instructions manual :
http://support.automation.siemens.com/GB/view/en/16749533

5. OPERATING MODES
5.1 Digital Control
For a basic start-up configuration using digital control, proceed as follows:
(1) Connect control terminal 9 to terminal 5 via a simple on/off switch. This sets up the inverter for clockwise rotation of the motor shaft (default). NOTE: this could be done through a digital output from PLC
(2) Secure all covers to the unit and then apply mains power to the inverter. Set parameter P009 to 002 or 003 to enable all parameters to be adjusted.
(3) Check that parameter P006 is set to 000 to specify digital setpoint.
(4) Set parameter P007 to 000 to specify digital input (i.e. DIN1, terminal 5 in this case) and disable the front panel controls.
(5) Set parameter P005 to the desired frequency setpoint.
(6) Set parameters P080 to P085 in accordance with the rating plate on the motor (see Figure 4.2.1).
(7) Set the external on/off switch to ON. The inverter will now drive the motor at the frequency set by P005.
5.2 Analogue Control
For a basic start-up configuration using analogue voltage control, proceed as follows:
(1) Connect control terminal 9 to terminal 5 via a simple on/off switch. This sets up the motor for clockwise rotation (default).
(2) Connect a 4.7 k_ potentiometer to the control terminals as shown in Figures 2.2.4 and 2.2.6 (MMV) (Figures 3.2.2 and 3.2.4 (MDV)) or connect pin 2 (0V) to pin 4 and a 0 - 10 V signal between pin 2 (0V) and pin 3 (AIN+).
(3) Set the Analogue Input 1 Configuration DIP selector switches 1, 2 and 3 for voltage (V) input. (See Figure 3.2.2-3.2.4, Section 4.1.2)
(4) Secure all covers to the unit and then apply mains power to the inverter. Set parameter P009 to 002 or 003 to enable all parameters to be adjusted.
(5) Set parameter P006 to 001 to specify analogue setpoint.
(6) Set parameter P007 to 000 to specify digital input and disable the front panel controls.
(7) Set parameters P021 and P022 to specify the minimum and maximum output frequency settings.
(8) Set parameters P080 to P085 in accordance with the rating plate on the motor (see Figure 4.2.1).
(9) Set the external on/off switch to ON. Turn the potentiometer (or adjust the analogue input control voltage) until the desired frequency is displayed on the inverter.
Note: here you could use a digital and analog output from the PLC to give you analog control of the drive

Micromaster 3 Getting started manual:
http://support.automation.siemens.com/GB/view/en/5824222

Hope this helps,
Daniel Chartier

rameshreee · Jan 27, 2009

Thanks...

thanks for ur reply daniel...

as u said,i was tried to connect simple on/off switch between 5(DIN 1) and 9 terminal..but micromaster panel has got 5 DIN on/off switch...i cudnt connect the switch externally as it got internally..

badly need wiring diagram between s7-200 or s7-300 and micromaster vector mmv 75/3...coz dont know where to connect from plc to drive...

micromaster vector OP has got one RS 485 port and also in panel, wiring connection is there for RS 485...but in manual ..they mentioned dont use RS 485 externally ..this is why i didnt know where to connect..

u said...i dont recommend to use pwm pulse....i wud like to know why i shouldnt use ...

and u said ...u can give commands directly from plc to drive using analog or digital input...then what is the use of PLC program if we paramaterized in the micromaster vector to control the motor..

what sort of digital input should i have to give micromaster if i shouldnt use pwm pulse...

please kindly help out with these question if u know abt this...
thanks in advance.....

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